"school snobbery"

[dinkybinky]

I think it?s hysterical that some people think that if you child doesn?t attend a Grammar school or selective independent then they?re not academic. The level of ?school snobbery? that goes on is quite bewildering sometimes.

One last point - if you are as intelligent as you state you are you'd realise how stupid you are being. Intelligence is no measure of common sense. You never learnt that lesson, did you?

Well I don't think I've ever said I was clever. It's not for me to say. Secondly, on the whole call centre workers are not paid much. It is not really wrong to pick them out as at one extreme end of the employment scale. That does not mean I don't think they are good people.

What I do want is that daughters of call centre workers realise they can aim to be leading surgeons or accountants and own call centres.

I'm always puzzled by the notion that those in low paid positions live in the real world, kept warm and comfortable by their oodles of common sense, whereas those in high paid positions are some how not part of the real world...

What are we then? A figment of our own imaginations?

Actually may be that should have been "I don't think I've ever said I were clever"....not was. It doesn't sound quite right as I had it.

Xenia, do you know the IQ needed to be a surgeon or an accountant?
I am pretty sure it need to be above 100.
Which would rule out 1/2 the popluation.
So your posts should read "What I want is that some daughters of call centre workers......
[if you must use call centre workers as an example at all. Or even daugters rather than children]

Do you know what though amillion ? I'm not convinced that lots of jobs actually need you to be that clever.

The entry point requires you to have x or y or z qualification, but actually when you're doinbg the job it doesn't require the intellect of a genius.

I also think far too many girls under estimate themselves. Many are perfectly capable of doing well paid jobs that are perceived as difficult but somehow along the way they talk themselves out of it. Then they enter into a pattern of putting down the people who did manage it. They dismiss them as arrogant, or unkind, or having no common sense.

It's just another way to keep people (especially women) in their place.

I think both boys and girls can underestimate themselves.
I know plenty of children, aged 16-18 who are of average IQ.And no, they could never be able to be a surgeon or an accountant.

Yes, there are some jobs they could manage, but not say,most but not all of the professions.
I have seen them enter teaching nowadays.

I think parental expectation and encouragement is also a huge factor.

I see my working class family and peers as having low expectations. Too low. Many of these kids are able but the high paid jobs are perceived as too difficult.

I then see all my children's peers as having very high expectations whatever their ability. There's a sense of it all being perfectly possible IYSWIM.

I agree with the first 2 paragraphs wordfactory.
As regards the last paragraph, I do think some children from the 3rd paragraph can have too high expectations in some circumstances. So then find they are on degree courses that are not the right one for them.

55 of the worlds Billionaires and Successful Entrepreneurs dropped out of school or collage.

Personally know of 7 Oxbridge grads who have been jobless now for more than a year. They refuse to take jobs that they feel are beneath them because theyve been programmed to think that their certificate makes them superior to most of the population.

However on the whole those who go to good schools on average do better than those who don't.

" About half a million children now attend independent schools, accounting for around seven per cent of all pupils aged 11-16. They produce a fifth of all students at the country?s top 10 universities.

A survey published earlier this month found that 57 per cent of families would send their children to an independent school if they could afford to, up from 51 per cent in 1997.

Supporters of private education have argued that it saves taxpayers £3 billion a year, the extra cost that would fall on the state system if it were required to educate all the pupils currently at independent schools.

Last year, independent schools supported almost 40,000 children on means-tested bursaries with an annual value of almost £300 million, while more than 1,000 fee-paying schools had partnership links to help state schools or local community groups. "
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9685126/Politicians-are-demonising-independent-schools-says-top-head.html

Well dinky by all means tell yourself this shit.

But the reality is that the vast vast majority of people in highly paid jobs have a high level of education. The vast vast majority of people in positions which influence our lives at macro level have a high level of education.

dinkybinky, entrepreneurs can be the exception to the general rule.
They are often bored witless at school, and in fact get into mild mischief, as they are so bored.
They can fly under the radar of the school system.
I dont know the IQ of entrepreneurs, I suspect it is pretty high.
I dont think they sometimes come across as exceptional in school because they find exams too easy, and therefore do not try hard.

Agre with wordfactory on the rest of it.

DH and I are entrepreneurs both of us left school at 16 and have gone on to do extremely well in, fact better than 99% of the population.

Well then...absolute proof that education is an utter waste of time!

Good stuff.

I?m not saying that education is a waste of time I?m saying that it takes more than good exam results to be successful in life.

Agreed.

Did you go back to education later in life, may I ask?

Not formally. My children are all very academic which we actively encourage. Years ago there were more opportunities but now you need a degree just to get your foot in the door.

Yes, it has changed a bit but I certainly know a lot of very hard working people who had few qualifications and did fine. In fact I think one reason I do pretty well (and those of my children who work) is not just exam results but it's that ability to work very hard, a kind of physical robustness and stoicism which a lot of people don't have. There was a programme on ch4 player - how the other half lives one episode recently where a man worth 9m in marketing, self made helps an ex traveller lady single mother who got herself a first class degree, masters, did barrister course and then could not go further. It turns out the richer man left school without any O levels and the well qualified one who is working hard to make something of herself or trying to has all those qualifications. He then helps her. However they are the exception. If we took a group of children at 18 who have AAA at A level and those who don't have A levels 30 years on probably most of those with the better exam results do better.

My circumstances have lead me to be working in a call centre, not my 'perceived' lack of education/intelligence. Like I said, stop living in your bubble and experience the world for the majority. And my daughter knows she can be anything she wants to be so long as she works hard enough to get there. She also knows that whatever her chosen field I will support her 100% so long as she is happy with her career choice. My only proviso is that she works hard to be the best in her field. It is far more important to me that she leads a happy fulfilled life than becomes a slave to a career based purely on wage. Wanting the best for your child is not the same as wanting them to earn a top 5% wage. What you have to realise that success IS'T purely monetary. Success to me is being a true person - true to yourself, and true to those that matter to you. There are many situations in life that throwing money at will make no difference. Having a circle of real friends, and family that love you purely because you are you the person, not you the chosen career path are what you need through life. I would rather die having a wake filled with friends and family laughing about the good times we shared together than a silent room full of colleagues networking (and yes I have witnessed this)

Actually may be that should have been "I don't think I've ever said I were clever"....not was. It doesn't sound quite right as I had it

I think you were right the first time. It's not a subjunctive, and you're not from Scunthorpe!

.. a word often censored on line.. Scunthorpe...

Everyone would agree with foslady's points about success and being happy etc but you can have very rewarding high paid professional careers, own call centres, employ 1000 workers as a woman, earn £1m a year and have a large happy family and loving relationships so we might as we encourage daughters to get the best happy well paid successful jobs and also have a nice life rather than a lovely life and a low paid job.

The point being that most really well paid careers women get huge satisfaction from whether that be being a leading surgeon or on the board of the FT or whatever and those jobs are varied, highly appreciated and paid and fun. It is not the case that good careers that are well paid are dull and call centre or cleaning jobs really good fun but well paid. In fact often the more interesting and high level a career the better paid it is which is win win all round.

Xenia,"Most of us whatever our accent think all people are of equal value and I hope I treat everyone as well as each other".

Good,in future posts and in rl please treat housewives with respect, and that includes not calling them "like prostitutes".
Good,in future posts and in rl please treat fat people with respect.
Good, in future posts and in rl please treat people with different accents to yourself with respect.
Good, in future posts and in rl please treat mums who look after their disabled children with respect.

Not forgetting treating children who don't get into selective schools with respect, and not saying things like "of course they have a right to live" despite being "the dregs"