to want to get on with our lives now

[WantsALife]

DP and I have been living together for a year now, and are thinking about starting a family. We're currently renting a nice place, but I want to get us settled in our own home before we start TTC.

DP is quite careful with money (though is generous), and says he wants to wait, because in his words 'the housing market is due for a big drop and I'm not handing over my hard earned to pay off other peoples mortgages'. We're in our early thirties, and he has saved up about 90k (I have about 20k). We both have reasonable paid jobs - not brilliant but with the deposit money could get a cheap mortgage easily.

He won't do it though, and says that I'm not thinking long term and that if we keep saving we'll get a good place with little or no mortgage eventually, or that or 'everyone's wages will have to explode' . Aargh - I just want to get our lives started! AIBU?

Its basically a big gamble on the housing market suffering another huge fall (or a continued decline).

If you know that house prices are going to fall 50% in 2-3 years time, it makes no sense to buy now, and far more sense to rent.

However, they could stay as they are, or they could yet again increase. No-one knows for certain. They said after the crash in the 80s that prices would never shoot back up again, and they were wrong.

"Wilson, what I mean is that I am not paying over the odds for something that has been pushed up through silliness - basically, I'm not handing over our cash to pay for the over enthusiasm to borrow of others."

I found this interesting...I, I, I. I'm not sure I'd want children with someone who is I, I, I...

I know, Chaotic.

Thing is - they ARE.

Why are rents so high?

Because the landlords have these mortgages on them.

So you have to laugh really, because in paying the rent in order to not pay over the odds for something that has been pushed up through silliness, they are! The rent they pay goes to the landlord's mortgage.

Only difference is that no matter how much they pay off of this mortgage - the house still won't ever have their name on the deeds!

With a big deposit you would probably be paying less back on a repayment mortgage than you would on rent, often substantially less.

I don't understand his logic to be fair but I much prefer home owning to renting. I had DS while we rented but we never felt settled or able to make it into a proper family home. Just my opinion though.

And yep what Hecate said. Through renting you are just paying off someone else's mortgage, that's what actually made us buy in the first place. It made me frustrated that our money was going into someone else's investment.

"it should take another 6 years to save another 100 grand. Compound interest will be our friend too :-). "

Is this based on current saving levels or levels once you've had kids? Does it allow for childcare/part-time working/SAHM/money spent on kids? And what if you have 2 kids - or 3 - in that 6 years?

Sorry, went for lunch and to clear my head. OK - I can accept I am also being stubborn. However, I also think that having the money I've saved liquid will allow us a great deal of flexibility in investment.

Whoever (sorry) said our rent is 750 is spot on. We are currently getting 400p/m in interest, so our outlay for our 3 bed home is 350 p/m - basically not very much at all. We would require a 14 year term minimum to be allowed to borrow the 110k to get a similar house, and pay 800 p/m for that at the current low interest rates. So we would be paying 450 p/m extra to 'get' the house in 14 years.

But as our savings go up, the interest is going to keep increasing to a point where we will be covering the rent almost entirely through that. Plus if the prices do drop - and they will - we can buy AND have a lump sum. I don't buy that rents are going up - mine (in effect) hasn't in 5 years as I look for private landlords.

But yeah, is it worth causing more problems....that is the question .

You're thinking with your head, she is thinking with her heart.

I'm with her, a few extra years of paying a mortgage v's her happiness and pride in creating her "own" family home. No contest if it were me but each to their own, up to you if you want to put financial estimates before your OHs feelings of security.

Back on and a bit confused there for a moment - well I think I may well just be of the opinion that you live for the moment. I really see your point and the housing markets an all of your reasons, savings etc al very good. BUT I really can't stand the whole when we are 38 we will have 2 DS called kate & Tom they will be in childcare 2.5 days a week and our net income will be xyz.

FFS life just doesn't work like that, I don't ever wish bad luck on anyone but how on earth can you live your life so far ahead? you'll be so busy looking forwards you'll forget to enjoy what you have today.

We had friends like you, heads screwed on, lovely wedding, bought a house that was for the next 2 years, had the baby, bought the next size house up 5 years later. Husband decided he's had enough moved to australia got divorced, friend is now living near her mum having remarried and had another baby - that's in less than 10 years.

I'd take stock of the lovely position you are in having these choices, being in a nice rented house, grab a beer and chill out and enjoy each other, your health and what ever roof over your head you have.

I'm being unreasonable aren't I. Bugger. I just hate borrowing money!

OP - read back what I said about the emotional side not the financial side of buying a house. You need to talk to your DP about this, but do not talk about wage to price ratios or underlying economics or compound interest, talk about the emotions not the figures. Listen carefully to what she says.

Take on board what buying a house means to her, then try to see if you can do that via a rental. You might have to move to something more expensive but more secure. How many properties have you had in the last 5 years? How much have you paid out in moving costs and fees? Have you always been able to stay within a mile of the other flat/house? (For schools, that can be important) If you have a small child, with the mess they make, you also have to assume you won't get all of your deposit back.

While you would be paying extra to get the house in 14 years, do you really think it would take you 14 years to pay off the mortgage? Wouldn't you overpay between now and then with the extra grand or so a month you otherwise would be saving? If not, why not?

See, not all debt is bad, it makes sense if it's the only way to get what you need now and you can afford it. You are having an emotional response to the very idea of borrowing, even if it would improve the quality of your life. You aren't being rational in that respect.

Your calculations are missing a detail: the only real cost of a mortgage is the interest on it not the monthly payment. If you want to count the monthly payment you should be comparing cost of rent + amount you are putting aside to buy a house with.

Because you've admitted you want a house outright eventually.

My DH is like you too, luckily for him I agree and we have raised our children in rental houses, we will buy one day but are holding fire for now. In the days of interest only mortgages there are huge advantages to rental.

Hecate agree with you wrt paying the landlords mortgage.

OP how about going full time for the next two years and saving every extra penny towards a mortgage. That should increase your savings enough to reduce the timeframe needed to save up the amount you need/want to save. You could always reduce your hours again after the two years. Perhaps your DP will agree to start TCCing in two years if she can see the end in sight. It could take a while before you concieve and then approx nine months before baby is born so that would give you a little extra time to keep saving.

yes yes going - interest only mortgages are the devils work - they allow people who can't really afford to buy a home to borrow more and push up the price for others. Stupid.

Mrs Hoarder - I've accounted for that, but you're forgetting the flexibility of having the cash liquid and the fact we aren't paying maintenance.

But I've accepted there's bigger things to consider now. We'll see what happens.

Your DP would be v naive if given the imbalance in your financial circumstances she didn't insist on marriage or a legal agreement re division of house / assets before ttc DC.

Nah, no going full time - that is one compromise I am not making. The cost to my health isn't worth it. I get too stressed out. We earn enough and have a nice enough life as it is - that really shouldn't have to change.

If you're currently paying the equivalent of £350 rent and assumable saving £1250 also, that means you can pay £1600 a month off your mortgage, which should clear a £110000 loan in 6-7 years.

I think you think you've done your sums pretty well.

Perhaps you have, only time will tell.

Before you get too impressed with your own cleverness,though, remember that to stick to your plan, you will have to deny your partner the security she feels she needs.

That makes you sound a bit thick, really.

Unless your job is exceptionally stressful, if you can't cope with FT work you may well struggle with parenting!

forgive me wantalife - but you don't appear to be making any compromises at all from what i can see - unless i'm getting confused again with all this cross thread stuff. that i think is one of your main problems - that neither of you will compromise

But if prices drop monkey even 10% in the interim we will have many thousands more than that. It is a pure gamble accepted - and to people who say I am not a risk taker, I'm the exact opposite. Lets leave these calculations. You will not convince me I'm wrong on this. I have a moral objection to plunge money into the housing market at this point, but I will have to look at that to make amends with my DP.

Nail on head, Captain.

If he wants a child, the price he must pay is to ensure that his partner feels secure enough to have a child with him.

I will never blame a woman for wanting security before having a child. After all, we're the ones who normally suffer if it all goes tits up.

It is really a test of how much he wants a child and how important his partner's fears are to him.

I would be very interested to know what they decide.

"If he wants a child, the price he must pay is to ensure that his partner feels secure enough to have a child with him."

That is the nub of it hecate - you have it spot on. I'm pretty sure I have to make the compromise, as much as it goes against what I feel is right.