to want to get on with our lives now

[WantsALife]

DP and I have been living together for a year now, and are thinking about starting a family. We're currently renting a nice place, but I want to get us settled in our own home before we start TTC.

DP is quite careful with money (though is generous), and says he wants to wait, because in his words 'the housing market is due for a big drop and I'm not handing over my hard earned to pay off other peoples mortgages'. We're in our early thirties, and he has saved up about 90k (I have about 20k). We both have reasonable paid jobs - not brilliant but with the deposit money could get a cheap mortgage easily.

He won't do it though, and says that I'm not thinking long term and that if we keep saving we'll get a good place with little or no mortgage eventually, or that or 'everyone's wages will have to explode' . Aargh - I just want to get our lives started! AIBU?

[WantsALife]

Hecate, it should take another 6 years to save another 100 grand. Compound interest will be our friend too :-). I will eat my hat if prices have risen in 6 years without their being serious wage inflation alongside it. If that happens, we'll buy.

[WantsALife]

Oh and that would mean being mortgage free by 38. I think it's a price worth paying. Because childcare won't be an issue in our house, the DC's are not going to be costly either (in the short term at least!).

[dreamingofsun]

could you not work FT whilst you save and go PT again once you had kids?

[dreamingofsun]

But you may not magically have kids in 6 years time because you have missed her reproductive window. Nature makes no allowances for mortgages.

[WantsALife]

Dreaming - that's why we should have kids now, I've already mentioned that I think we should already be trying - you keep missing that point!

[DontmindifIdo]

OP - propose. Say you'll marry her within 6 months. Make what's yours is hers and what hers is yours. Commit yourself financially to her and any family unit you have. Ask her to explain why she wants to buy a house, and listen don't just give financial arguments, listen to what buying a home means to her. See if you can find ways in the rental market to reproduce what she wants from a home - if you can't rent what she wants, you might have to conceed you buy it, even if that means long term your asset falls in value (I have bought a car, it's fallen in value since I bought it, however I have had the use of it, renting a car every month wouldn't work for me - you would have the use of a home, if you can't get the same 'home' concept she wants from rental market, then you will have to buy or find a different woman)

Give her a definate about a house - so when prices fall to X amount, or when we can afford to buy 3/4 bedrooms in Y area we will buy - on the understanding you'll stay there for Z number of years to balance out any further falls. Right now she's waiting on a 'never never' from you. It looks like excuses. Give her something definate to work towards.

Or leave her and find a woman who has similar life goals to you.

[HecatePropylaea]

Will your partner by 38 by then as well?

Cos as you know, fertility decreases as a woman ages. Now, I'm not saying she'll have problems. But statistically, it's more likely.

That's a really, really important consideration.

How would you feel if you got the house, mortgage free, and you never had children because you'd left it too late?

Would the fact you own a home with no mortgage be worth it?

Now, I stress again, it may be that she'll become pregnant with no problems. But age does matter. And it's a possibility you have to consider.

[WantsALife]

No, I'm not working full time. Especially if we have kids now.

[dreamingofsun]

'Oh and that would mean being mortgage free by 38. I think it's a price worth paying' - when you say things like this and cross pots thats hardly suprising. I guess I'm agreeing with you.....

[WantsALife]

Hecate - I want kids now - that is the point.

[HecatePropylaea]

But she won't, without the house. So in effect, you are deciding to not have them either. Because you won't buy the house until you have enough money to buy it outright and she won't have children without the house. And you know that. But you won't bend and neither will she.

[PanickingIdiot]

You are the one who wants kids then, OP? And she's not that keen, or would rather wait?

You are the one who have to sell the idea to her, then. She doesn't have to convince you of anything.

In other words, what Dontmind said.

[MonkeyRisotto]

Am I the only one that's now confused as to what the situation is and what is being asked?

Stupid reverse IABUs....

[Some0ne]

I'd agree with you, WantsALife. I think you've thought it through pretty well.

But don't go assuming that childcare is the only expensive part of having kids. For his first 8 months, my DS needed over ?700 worth of medication and specialist formula every month.

[DontmindifIdo]

so you will have the DCs 2 days a week, then 2 days of weekend, does your DP also work part time or who will cover the other 3 working days? My DS goes to nursery 3 days a week, it costs nearly £800 a month. Will she also go parttime? How will you cover the cost of maternity leave or will you expect her to go back to work straight away?

What if she doesn't want to work full time and you work parttime? What if she wants more time at home with the DCs?

[BegoniaBigtoes]

OP, you know what, it's possible to have happiness without having made sure you haven't ever wasted a penny.

You're obviously reasonably affluent if you've saved over 100K. So wat if you don't drive the best bargain ever known to humanity when you buy a house? So what if you have a bit of a mortgage? Most people do. So what if house values drop? What matters is that you are happy with what you pay for what you get - and long term it will probably be OK. Learning to live with less than 100% efficiency and perfection can actually be OK.

You're so sure you're right, you're actually forgetting that your partner has an equally valid point of view.

What I would do is this. Both of you chill out. Have a baby if you're ready to - a nice rented house is a great home for a baby, and babies can actually move house you know. Look for houses, take your time, get used to the market and one day you will find one you just love and can afford.

For sensible financial predictions and advice, go on some economics websites and see what the experts have to say.

And if you're going to have kids, get used to the idea that you cannot always control every expenditure and predict every cost. As my bank manager memorably said to me "having kids is like crumpling up £20 notes and throwing them in the fire". But that's life isn't it. You're lucky you have jobs and money and options.

[HecatePropylaea]

Monkey - OP and his partner are paying the landlords mortgage renting OP wants to have children with his partner now. His partner says no way, pal, not until we own our own home. OP says no chance, we've only got £110,000 in savings and we're not going to buy a home until we have saved up enough to buy it outright. And houses are too expensive at the moment and will become cheaper in the future and we'll buy then, because I don't want to pay someone's mortgage off (or something. I'm a bit confused about that, when renting is paying someone else's mortgage with nothing to show for it at any point. Ever.). We'll buy when houses are cheaper than now and when we have all the money to buy in cash.

I think that's basically it.

[Namechangeforapropertythread]

It sounds like she wants to settle and you dont. Or that you are seeing your life/family in terms of a financial transaction.

If it were me in that situation I would want to feel settled, married, in my own home that I was able to decorate the nursery as I liked etc, buying furniture for the future and have kids...

[FatimaLovesBread]

Just lookin at some basic maths here.
You say your £300 interest a month is more than a third of your rent, so lets say your rent is £750 a month. You also say you could save up another £100k in 6 years, so lets say you're saving £1250 a month.
You could get a £100k mortgage for the house now, use what you'd be paying for rent and what you'd be saving for payments and you'd still be mortgage free by 38.

That way you get your babies, your OH gets her security and you both get to still be mortgage free in a few years.

If you're paying say £750 for your rent I don't see what's any different to paying it to a mortgage which is effectively renting from a back but you get something back at the end of it.

If you buy your forever home then it's "value" is irrelevant anyway unless you're wanting to sell in a few years

[MonkeyRisotto]

So its a trade off of the following factors.

Renting is less secure, the landlord can chuck you out with (I think) 3 months notice?
Gambling that there's going to be a further drop in house prices, on top of the big fall of 2008(ish).
Paying money to a landlord and receiving interest on savings being better value than paying off a mortgage.
Risking lower fertility in x years time when house prices have or haven't fallen.

I personally don't like renting as I went to extend the lease on my last property with just over a month to go and he'd changed his mind and wanted me out.

[DontmindifIdo]

Oh and "reproducing what a home means to her in the rental market" might mean finding that rare thing, a landlord who will give you a 5 year tenancy (you will pay massively over the odds for this, not suiting your personality really).

It might mean marriage to give her legal protection.

It might mean accepting you will have to buy eariler with a small mortgage when she meets her "now or never" time.

but what I don't understand, if you can save at the rate you are and pay rent on a family home - why can't you buy now to keep her happy, pay the mortgage and over pay on it rather than save? You'd still be mortgage free before you hit 40, and would have a family. Do you think the mortgage would be higher than the rent on an equivlant property?

Or is this the point, in order to save are you expecting to raise a family in a small rental so that you can save the difference?

[FatimaLovesBread]

I agree with Hecate.
I think your arguement is flawed by the fact that you are currently renting, which is paying someone else's mortgage and does not give you any additional benefits

[WilsonFrickett]

OK, here's another reverse AIBU.

My DP is a lovely guy, bit tight with money though. He's managed to save a shed-load of money which of course is brilliant, it's more than enough to fund a sizeable deposit on a house. I have savings too, but not as much.

I'm quite traditional I suppose - I'd like him to commit to me and I'd like to get married. I'd also like us to buy a house together. I know buying a house isn't the be-all and end-all, but it will make me feel more secure. I'd also like to get all the upheaval of moving etc out of the way before we ttc. I want to feel settled. My DP won't even consider buying a house, for financial reasons he says, but there's this nagging doubt in my mind it's because he's not really ready to commit to me. I also wonder if the financial thing is a control thing really - he's in charge of when we buy a house, he's in charge of when we move forward iyswim.

We both want DCs but my DP is pretty insistent that he wants them now. I'm not too sure if now is the right time - partly for the reasons above, partly because everything we do is based around his schedule and his timings. I'd like more commitment before we ttc -I know having DCs is a massive commitment and my DP is a good guy, don't get me wrong, but atm I feel financially exposed and vulnerable. I want to make a home with my DP before we have DCs. But he's not listening. AIBU.

[EuroShagmore]

Would you like French or English mustard with that hat, OP?

I think you are completely and utterly wrong with your housing market predictions. But there is no law saying you have to buy a house. However the consequence of that might be your partner finding the ticking of her biological clock getting rather loud and heading off to find someone who will give her security in the form of marriage and the house she wants.

BTW, I'm another one on this thread who wouldn't have children without marriage. And I am no big fan of marriage. I wouldn't have done it for any other reason than children.

[FatimaLovesBread]

Sorry coming back to it again.
Using my estimated rent from earlier. The money you will spend on rent over the next 6 years while you save up the further £100k to buy, would surely be far higher than what you would pay in mortgage interest AND any (if there is any) decrease in house value over that same time period?