Work Life Family relationship balance HTF do we balance it (really bloody long)

[worklifedifficult]

Is this unreasonable?!?!?!

Me and DW both work in IT. I'm a programmer, she's a project manager. She works for a eCommerce outfit, I work in the IS department of a Big Financial Services outfit. We're both expected to start work about 8ish and finish 7ish (that's desk time). Before anyone jumps to conclusions we don't earn the huge salaries that are the perceptions of the IT industry.

We're a nuclear family living in London - I have no family to call upon, DW's family are all in Oz, we don't have many friends to really call upon for help as neither of us are from this part of London.

Our dd1&2 are in reception and Y2 they start school at 8:30 and can finish at 5:30 at the latest.

We've had some difficulties with organising childcare to deal with our situation.

We don't earn enough or have enough surplus to afford a qualified nanny, we don't have enough space in her house for an Au-pair and don't have the savings or resources to move.

DW and I are sort of in agreement that one of us should quit work to do the necessaries to look after the kids - but one of us needs to get a job with a salary bump otherwise we will really have serious financial difficulties (we have them now but just get through it). As an example this is our basic breakdown house 1200 (double, big single, boxroom) council tax 250 energy and water 200 pcm. Oyster (* 2) 280. Fortunately, nothing goes on debt because we've been very careful to avoid it.

Everything left over seems to hemorrhage on food, clothes, children, childcare, a bit of weekend entertainment for the kids when its raining, books, learning materials and trying to have a nice comfortabe-ish life. You know the sort that you would expect to be a given our careers and education.

DW is better suited to getting a salary bump in her career than I am, but each of us accepts that one or the other may have to quit work as we don't see it becoming easier over the next 5-10 years, sustaining the work and family/school obligations. As an example DW's boss (double her salary, his wife has a very big salary, a nanny and weekend nanny) got narky that she was starting work an hour earlier so she could leave an hour earlier to collect the kids from school. My boss (no kids, unmarried starts work at 7am) pulls a face cos I don't get to my desk until 8:50 cos I do the school run in the morning (I drop them at breakfast club at 8am and if the underground is behaving its-self get to work 50mins later).

Problem is is that its starting to cripple me and DW relationship, the work constraints and obligations causes us a lot of stress on top of the stresses of running a household and looking after the children. We end up in a situation where I vocalise it, DW internalises it and we end up having a bit of an unhappy time, snipping snarking, snapping. Which neither of us wants, we don't expect it to be easy but it seems to be a lot harder than we both expected, especially as we are both knackered after a long day doing stuff and never seem to catch up over the weekend.

We are great-full for our incomes, and from my own background and experiences i know there are many people in much worse financial situations. but and I guess here comes the question. How do we manage all of this? because we suspect that we're not, what should we do to make it easier, bar winning the lottery (ain't never gonna happen eh!).

I feel that we live on a knife edge of destroying our relationship and our children's psychological health and well-being over having to work. ABIU I guess.

Havent read the full threas but as a IT guru, is it worth you training as a teacher? It's bloody hard work but it is easier in some ways, eg, holidays to juggle. The only thing is that you can't take any time off outside od the holidays, eg, for a special assembly and even child's DR appts can be frowned on but DH (he in IT but nice bosses) and I (teacher) manage. He commutes to London and I drive to work. We live on a fast train line quite a way out although it is still a bit pricey round us, I think childcare is cheaper than London. The IT curriculum is going to move towards more programming so you might be in a good place. You could do a GDtP course which would pay you.

Inaflap I don't have the interpersonal skills necessary to be a teacher and when you consider I was thrown out of my AS Level Computer Science for complaining that the teacher was too slow and the rest of the class was far too way behind... its not going to be for me.

Earlier I felt I was being criticised for being vocal about my colleagues old skool attitudes to the ancient gender stereotypes... I do actually keep my home situation quiet it the workplace... this week has tweeked me cos of having to take time off in my probationary period as DW had taken half term off last week and it would be massively unfair to ask her to take additional time cos of DC's being coughy/snotty. Yeh!!!! I'm being sensitive I know Now I'm gonna sit in front of Modern Family with a nice cold lager and laugh my socks off

Notice how nobody in Modern Family ever has to think about their work or have it prevent them doing anything they want to? There was one episode about Mitchell's job, I think. We hear a bit about Phil's real estate work but basically everybody is free all the time it seems and can live in those lovely big houses on only one income!

Great post, ThreeTomatoes.

we left London
took cuts in pay, but a bigger cut in house prices left us with better, more central accommodation without a loss of disposable income. we manage the juggling act by one of us (me) having a ridiculously short commute, and the also the opportunity to work from home.

we didn't do the moving to the suburbs/home counties thing, but chose a fantastic city in the north, with plenty of cultural and entertainment opportunities. There is life outside the Big Smoke, I promise. You might even stretch to a spare room so that London friends can visit regularly. Mine do.

^^ I think that's the key. Don't do the 'burbs, move to another city. Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh are all fab.

I didn't find the cost of living much cheaper in the safe areas of the north west our mortgage was similar although we did have an extra bedroom I suppose.
We moved to Perth Australia, we're not financially better off but nobody works long hours which is just as well because there's no bloody childcare

I think before we move there are other issues that need to be sorted otherwise well just move the problems to another city.

Our money needs to be so better managed people on lesser incomes, with more children appear to get by - I've read enough of those threads here.

The Dc's need to stop being so slovenly and precious, if I ask DD1 to pick up her coat after dropping it on the floor she'll have a sulk and burst into tears - ffs where has she learnt to do that.

We've got vermin (mice, rats and squirrels - who gets squirrels sitting in the living room eating an old crust) cos they dump half eaten food behind the sofa and other places... where have they learnt to do that... Me and DW don't. We constantly have to run around behind then stopping them from emptying draws, pulling cables of of the tv and pc's, dumping toys, clothes and stuff everywhere.

They get shit loads of attention, you've seen in earlier posts how DW and me try to keep them occupied, but at home they are nasty, filthy attention seeking little *&^%$ who have no patience, no manners and are demanding. aaaargh! got that out of my system.

FFS I'm a bloke - I should be down the boozer, watching footie, gassing with my mates... feet up infront of the tv with a tinnie... like my granddad. Not stressing about work perceptions, childcare provision and money flow.

DW taken em out this morning (I don't envy her that with the constant running off in different directions and the I want I want I want) so I can give the house a tidy up and in the space of a week the amount of crap they've built up, stuffed behind chairs, under the sofa and htf did a winegum get stuck there.

I know it shit op but at least you have weekends together as a family. Me and my husband both work shifts, we have just gone 9 weeks without a day off together and often have 4 -6 weeks like that too. Often when my SD is with us I dont see her.

I would love 2 days off a week with my husband. We live for our 2 week holiday a year where we just get to spend quality time as a couple as that's really the only time we get.

Purple2012 thank you, for your sanity check... it stops me from being too self indulgent. I feel for you, I hope your schedules can sync at some point in the future so you can spend more time together.

Sometimes the very thin line between being jokey/funny, and sounding like a twat can become blurred. Especially when only using the written word.

You sound like you're going for the former from your previous posts, but all the 'I'm a bloke' jests will get you some interesting responses on here I reckon.

Why don't you start a thread in parenting to get some tips on enforcing a bit of tidying from your DC?

schobe probably the latter, and yes I do feel I need some advice on being a better parent. Cos we've got no extended family, its a bit difficult at times to get advice in RL. I don't think I'd ever start a conversation with mates and colleagues about how to be a better parent. Oddly, it seems easier for DW to do that with her colleagues but she does point out that none of the guys with children get involved.

I've tried going to dad's groups... but I don't seem to get a warm response - which I think is down to perception, without my business suit on I look like a right wing nazi skinhead and before DC's I was working towards getting a 3/4 tattoo suit so in t-shirt and shorts I look pretty scary. Plus my social skills are more geared to writing beautiful code and managing High performance computing networks... so I feel a bit disadvantaged

OP if you are able to find a parenting course, that you can both attend, which obviously provides childcare as well (they do exist!) that would be a good start. I had ishoos with my DD getting up/ready/out and got a lot out of the course I went on. You basically learn a number of tactics to use, which are a lot more positive and encouraging of the desired behaviour you are looking for, than the stressed, frazzled situation you have at present. It's worth looking into.

OP, nothing to add to the already sound advice given upthread about your work situation, but I one small suggestion:

If you as a family gave up something on a rolling 2-week basis, I'll bet you anything you could afford to get a cleaner in for a couple of hours once a fortnight. For example: you give up buying meat for 2 weeks and eat veggie (interspersed with meat meals from the freezer if necessary). Then you give up buying alcohol for 2 weeks. Then you give up buying ice-cream treats for 2 weeks. Very quickly you would make up the cleaner's pay - and to have your house cleaned thoroughly once a fortnight would be a HUGE mental break for you and DW. Have a think about it. (It'll also force you to make your groceries stretch longer - batch cooking, homemade biscuits in some tinfoil for your weekend outings - spring them on the DDs as a surprise and they won't mind a bit that they aren't shop-bought.)

It's impossible to plan anything or feel sane when you feel the housework is running away on you.

And for what it's worth - I also work in IT (freelancing now but used to have a permanent position) and it's absolutely nuts that you can't work flexibly. IT should be the most flexible industry there is. When I was working full-time all of the programmer dads and mums worked from home at least once a week. It's just common sense.

worklifedifficult agree there are issues that would be better to sort before / if you move. Also moving is stressful ! If you can get flexible working agreed it should free up time which would take some pressure off. I find dc are always worse behaved when I am busy and stressed and don't have time to listen etc. ( even if it does sound like drivel... ) a wee bit less time pressures in the week could make a big difference to you all .
I think it's great that dads go to parenting classes, the more that do the more used to it people will be. You don't have to show all your tatoos at once

Welcome to MumsNet...its a great place for discussing parenting issues if you're happier talking to a computer than people ...even for those of us who can do the latter too, there's some things its a lot easier to discuss here than IRL (mine was bedwetting, loads of threads here, never a whisper in real life... invading vermin may be a bit like that. Don't forget that despite its name, the motto is 'By parents, for parents' and the aim is to make parents' lives easier.

How to deal with misbehaving kids is a whole thread or ten of its own but one of the simple ideas is that there is a related consequence, preferably immediate. You never make a threat unless its something you're going to carry through. So, if they pull out the tv cable, don't replace it immediately and tell them that if they do it again it will stay out till after their bedtime and then if they do it again carry through with the consequence. If they empty out a drawer, they have to put it all back (this will take longer than you doing it but they should get the message). If you've got a problem with food down the sofa, restrict food to the kitchen table for a few days. That sort of thing (I'm crap at the food one myself but we have a dog who cleans up before vermin could get a sniff!)

My advice, move out of London to a city you can afford - maybe glasgow, get a slightly bigger house, get an au pair. You will then have help on hand in the home, and you might even get out on the odd night as you will have a baby sitter. It will cost you room and board and about £100pw max

Be brave