Work Life Family relationship balance HTF do we balance it (really bloody long)

[worklifedifficult]

Is this unreasonable?!?!?!

Me and DW both work in IT. I'm a programmer, she's a project manager. She works for a eCommerce outfit, I work in the IS department of a Big Financial Services outfit. We're both expected to start work about 8ish and finish 7ish (that's desk time). Before anyone jumps to conclusions we don't earn the huge salaries that are the perceptions of the IT industry.

We're a nuclear family living in London - I have no family to call upon, DW's family are all in Oz, we don't have many friends to really call upon for help as neither of us are from this part of London.

Our dd1&2 are in reception and Y2 they start school at 8:30 and can finish at 5:30 at the latest.

We've had some difficulties with organising childcare to deal with our situation.

We don't earn enough or have enough surplus to afford a qualified nanny, we don't have enough space in her house for an Au-pair and don't have the savings or resources to move.

DW and I are sort of in agreement that one of us should quit work to do the necessaries to look after the kids - but one of us needs to get a job with a salary bump otherwise we will really have serious financial difficulties (we have them now but just get through it). As an example this is our basic breakdown house 1200 (double, big single, boxroom) council tax 250 energy and water 200 pcm. Oyster (* 2) 280. Fortunately, nothing goes on debt because we've been very careful to avoid it.

Everything left over seems to hemorrhage on food, clothes, children, childcare, a bit of weekend entertainment for the kids when its raining, books, learning materials and trying to have a nice comfortabe-ish life. You know the sort that you would expect to be a given our careers and education.

DW is better suited to getting a salary bump in her career than I am, but each of us accepts that one or the other may have to quit work as we don't see it becoming easier over the next 5-10 years, sustaining the work and family/school obligations. As an example DW's boss (double her salary, his wife has a very big salary, a nanny and weekend nanny) got narky that she was starting work an hour earlier so she could leave an hour earlier to collect the kids from school. My boss (no kids, unmarried starts work at 7am) pulls a face cos I don't get to my desk until 8:50 cos I do the school run in the morning (I drop them at breakfast club at 8am and if the underground is behaving its-self get to work 50mins later).

Problem is is that its starting to cripple me and DW relationship, the work constraints and obligations causes us a lot of stress on top of the stresses of running a household and looking after the children. We end up in a situation where I vocalise it, DW internalises it and we end up having a bit of an unhappy time, snipping snarking, snapping. Which neither of us wants, we don't expect it to be easy but it seems to be a lot harder than we both expected, especially as we are both knackered after a long day doing stuff and never seem to catch up over the weekend.

We are great-full for our incomes, and from my own background and experiences i know there are many people in much worse financial situations. but and I guess here comes the question. How do we manage all of this? because we suspect that we're not, what should we do to make it easier, bar winning the lottery (ain't never gonna happen eh!).

I feel that we live on a knife edge of destroying our relationship and our children's psychological health and well-being over having to work. ABIU I guess.

How about one of you changes jobs, to something more flexible/less demanding, as with both kids at school now there's no reason to give up work altogether.

Or how about a transfer to another role within your current firms, so you end up with a different boss? It sounds like your bosses are putting up barriers for you, because of their personal stances and expectations (I work part time, my boss also works part time and has children, this makes my working arrangements so much easier, as she understands where I'm coming from, if I need to juggle days and hours etc, I get the same amount of work done, but with much less stress than if someone was clock-watching.)

Personally I would try that before moving, because moving is so very expensive, especially if you are buying rather than renting, think stamp duty etc, you would lose tens of thousands of pounds in taxes and fees just to move.

Disappearing has a good point about looking for a sideways move within current employers with a more flex friendly manager? My manager is a bit of an anomaly in that he had a child and is still great with the flexibility. Other managers, in similar work positions have children but want us in the office. I think the fact that my manager's DW works FT whereas the others don't plays a big part in that decision.

Thing is going back to my original intent of the post, is how to get the current balance better. We know now that we're on a knife edge, but it things like the mornings. Today I'm up at 6:30 I make the tea-timers club food, then find the uniforms which are scattered all over the place. dd1 gets up about 6:45, I start trying to get her dressed (war breaks out I cajole and try). Then I make breakfasts. Sometimes I have to run to the shop cos we've no milk. Today I'm doing this post. Then I get up dd2 she's worse than dd1. Order her to get dressed.

Around 7am DW wakes up gets dressed does make puts in contact lenses. Comes downstairs chases DC's about to get them to eat breakfast.

By 7:40 one of us has to be on their way for the school run. Other one leaves for an early start.

Thing is something like doing this post will put a dent in our morning schedule and I'll start to get twitchy about timings and obligations. DC have to be at Breakfast club for 8 for either of us to get to work by 9am and that's with public transport behaving itself totally.

A bigger dent in the morning schedule we both end up highly strung about all or obligations school work etc... and that's driving me/us nuts.

Glittertwins & Disappearing i'm still in my probationary period, DW has no scope in her firm as there's only about 35 in her job

so how do I get things done in the morning when faced with, I don't want to get dressed, I don't want that for breakfast, I dont want to go to school with of loosing the plot and temper?

I think you are paying too high a price to live in London. There are lots of other civilised places to live that are not so tough. Better to move now before your DC are too embedded in teenage friendships, activities etc.

So IMO long term I would argue you need to move - in London 2 kids, average salaries and reasonable life balance just doesn't happen. Personally I would star making an escape plan - spend weekends / holidays in other cities, speak to contacts who've made the move or live elsewhere. Good luck to your DW with the scottish options (recalls how much I enjoyed living in Glasgow for 5 years - sigh....)

But anyway back to your most recent post, you need to be more organised - meals/snacks and uniforms all ready the night before. Back to the old reward charts - star for getting up, star for getting dressed - both with no arguing. (star for parent that doesn't loose the plot! 5 stars and you get a bottle of wine!) . As much as I hate the program - super nanny style charts with jobs and tick boxes to make sure everything is packed. The kids are old enough to start helping out stacking dishes, pack school bags. The point is all 4 of you have to work on it together - especially with kids that age and a bit of bribery never goes amiss.

Packed breakfasts? (cold sausages, bananas, sandwiches)

But yeah, move. Get to eat breakfast with them.

Good luck.

Both my husband and I are in IT , though both work for the big players, our jobs are completely flexible , work from home when convenient as our teams are spread globally.

I've just reduced my hours for a couple of years to support school work with no issues.

Move jobs.

Op you may have discussed working from home but have either of you actually put in a formal flexible working request, that needs to be properly considered?

Have you quite recently started your current job, as you say you are still in probationary period? Did you seek flexible working during the interview?

If you are fulfilling your contract you have to stop feeling guilty.guilty doesn't help anyone. Me and DH both have jobs where people tend to stay later - we just can't do it, we've agreed flexible working so have a contract to point at and we just need to ignore any subtle pressure. We can both sometimes stay late as the other is sorting the childcare and that has to be enough.

As you know, children pick up on parental stress. If you are stressed about work, they get stressed about school.

In the short term you need to get organised - why is that school uniform scattered all over the house? Get it ready the night before. Same with school bags, PE kit etc. Reduce it so that the only things being done in the morning are the things that have to be done in the morning. Give a simple choice for breakfast - A or B. The third alternative is to go hungry. Dont want to get dressed? Go to school in PJs (uniform in a bag). It will only happen once!

You dont like your job, you are paying a fortune for childcare. How much better would you feel about your job if you knew that as soon as your DW could get a better job that you would be able to leave?

You could use the time that your DCs were at school to get housework done and also to train/research something else.

We found with my DH at home that it was a lot more relaxed in the evenings. Everything done during the day so that evenings and weekends were free for fun.

Oh & let them sleep in part of their uniform, eg aertex type shirt, tights. Pinafore over the top in the am.

Eve I guess you've been with your employer for a few years.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch I asked during interview and the response was a negative core hours only during probation. It doesn't help in the workplace where you see everyone staying later. Especially the married guys with young families too... I don't know how their DW's can tolerate them leaving work after 6:45 with a 2 hour train ride (for some and a stop off in the boozer as they often chuckle about). Betcha if the shoe was on the other foot they'rd be moaning... When I ask the question the attitude is "well she's at home"... grrrr!!!! WTF I've spent time at home looking after the DC's its not easy lads c'mon.... Sorry tirade over.

And yes there needs to be more disciplined organisation organisation... I just wish I could become more disciplined and organised... everything seems to be done in a rush and one thing out of place and the plan collapses cos everything seems so fragile.

Just to say we pay about £3.50 ph for wrap around care at DD's school, which covers us from 8 til 6.

OH has worked locally so can always be there for 6 (he could leave his desk at 5.45 and make it) and I work all over the place / away for days at a time as a contractor. He's got a new job which is further away, may involve overseas travel and I was going to look into a CM for extra hours, if possible, but hadn't realised how much more expensive it was!

Am sat on a train waiting to leave Glasgow after 3 days work here. It's a nice city and really friendly. Good luck to your DW - hope she gets the job!

Uniform sorted the night before helps - as does having plenty of spare socks etc. Keep something in stock which can serve as in-transit breakfast if they've not eaten proper brekkie (preferably something they're not too keen on, not a yummy cereal bar! ). Milk crises can be avoided by keeping a stock of UHT - the skimmed tastes fine.

Sounds like you work with a bunch of dinosaurs. This sort of anti-family corporate culture really does need breaking - it can happen but does require people to not conform to unacceptable norms.

How much longer on your probation period?

Your last post about the guys at your organisation - you just sound so switched on to it all. I guess the one benefit to your family is that you both totally get how difficult it is to work and have kids whereas in a lot of families (mine included) its the DW that shoulders the burden by working p/t and facing the frosty looks of other workers.

Ok mornings - tbh doesn't sound much different from our household although we only have one child so a bit easier. Due to curseword roadworks we both have to be out of the house before 8, DH a bit earlier as his new contract is further away. I put out Ds's uniform the evening before, ditto with making pack lunch. One of us gets DS his breakfast and he sticks on cartoon network until we have our showers. Sadly we have no time to surf either and any interruptions to the routine ( such as DH wanting to tell me a particularly interesting item that has occurred on Radio 4) can push the balance in the wrong direction.

At work stop trying to justify yourself and your situation. Believe me woman have been trying to do it for years. The single person or family man with a non working wife and grandparents who live on the next street don't want to hear it, they have little interest in putting themselves in your shoes. Just do a great job in the time you are there but be inflexible about your hours. Sadly it means you will never be promoted but it also means you will never be fired - which with two young children and both of you working f/t is probably the best you can hope for at this point in time.

About moving do research it carefully . We live in Edinburgh, though neither of us are Scottish. Love it to bits and have great friends - however local schools don't have a great reputation so we have gone private. You need to check out the catchment areas very thoroughly and unfortunately you may find that the house prices in good catchment areas are not as low as you might think.

For Glasgow I know a few English people who have moved there and found it difficult to assimilate. I lived there for a bit myself and it just wasn't for me. Edinburgh is a bit of a melting pot, whereas Glasgow seems to be a bit more traditional. Thats all I will say so I don't get myself in trouble

Good luck keep posting.

Oh and a lot of managers batten down the hatches when you mention the dreaded "flexible working" particularly at interview. Best to do it by stealth once you have been there a while and proved your worth.

I've got until Jan until my probation finishes.

Talking with DW last night we're both agreed that Scotland is the way to go. Now she needs to get a job up there so looking at either Glasgow or Edinburgh.
So if anyone knows any good sites for IT jobs in scotland please let me know!?!

Have you tried some of the agencies for work for yourself, if you're moving? I work for a very large company on a self-employed via agency basis, and I've been continuously employed for 12 years. Contract resources are cheaper for many companies because there's no pension, no holiday pay, no sick pay - and in most cases, the preference is for you to work from home because then there's no cost in terms of deskspace.

It sounds like your current company has a very dated view of home working - if you look at companies like Shell, HP, BP, they all have big IT departments with principally contract consultant resources, the majority of whom work from home.

I spend my day in front of my laptop in my home office, on the phone to colleagues in KL and Houston. There's nothing I can't do from here that I could do in the office because the It infrastructure is set up to allow that.

It might be worth just putting some feelers out for what agency work is available, just to give you an idea (now's not a great time as everyone's pulling in their belts prior to end-of-year, January would be better). I'd be surprised if you don't find that there is work suitable for you, albeit on a 3 or 6 month contract basis (which invariably get renewed).

Good luck with what you choose

A starting point may be www.S1jobs.com it's general recruitment site but may give you some contacts. Remember salaries are not as high up here ( although there are big bucks for skills in demand ) but the cost of living is much lower. The standard return subway fare in Glasgow is £2.20, for example.

Life is much simpler in Scotland - I love the way you can be out of the city in minutes, there is so much to explore, you are close to mountains and to beaches. The weather is shite though.

Also live in Glasgow but am from 'down south' . Dhs family still live in London and love London but seem to be constantly stressed ..not enough money/time/difficulty getting into good schools.

Agree with aboutlastnight - the pace of life is a bit slower , people are friendlier and you can easily get away from it all . Commuting is much less stressful as well.
Glasgow has hugely different areas ( like any city) so you need to do your research carefully.
Good luck to you and dw
I am enjoying your takes on trying to find a better work/life balance

friends have used students doing NNEB courses/childcare from local unis or colleges for afterschool childcare with great success.CRB checked and in your own home.

There are ways out-loads of brill ideas on here.Just focus on what matters most to you as a couple.Childhood is short.And as they get older they want you around more not less.

There are loads of it jobs in and around Manchester. The BBc moving up has encouraged other start ups to come up. My dh is an architect doing 9-6 on a good wage you could easily support a family on up here. They can't find decent people to fill new jobs at the moment where he works and the story is similar elsewhere.

It's not quite a complete cultural wasteland and London is 2 hours away on the train.

I might have missed what you do but if youre interested pm me a cv or skill set for you or your wife and I'll pass it on if you like.