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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to find this toy disturbing?

276 replies

Booboostoo · 03/11/2012 17:05

DM bought DD (17 months) a happyland fun fair set which was such good fun I was looking through their other toys online for Christmas inspiration when I found this

www.elc.co.uk/HappyLand-Khaleeji-Family/134473,default,pd.html

I really liked the fact that the fun fair set came with little people from all races, but I find this toy disturbing. Aside from the burkas, what's with the men sitting on thrones and the women tending donkeys?

DP is trying to rile me over it, so I have come to MN jury for some sanity.

OP posts:
nailak · 06/11/2012 11:08

" they are not as relevant as the acknowledgement that women are oppressed and one of the expressions of this oppression is being forced to dress in a certain way."

well actually to me the fact that some women somewhere in some unknown country are forced to wear abayah (I am not sure where women are forced to wear abayah? anyone enlighten me? Saudi?) is not more relevant then the hundreds of other countries in the world where women wear them if they choose to, and the fact that the doll looks like me and my mates!

Growlithe · 06/11/2012 11:55

Well frankly nailak I think you are bang out of order. Get of MN and get outside to tend the donkeys. The OP has a stereotype to maintain and you just aren't helping. Grin

Booboostoo · 06/11/2012 14:36

Sara I have mentioned a number of coutries, given concrete examples, conceded that generalisations do not apply to an entire religion, accepted that some countries have made progress, etc. so I don't see your point. Feel free to give answers to my questions for any countries you feel are representative of either oppresive regimes or those making progress.

OP posts:
Booboostoo · 06/11/2012 15:03

To be honest I am a bit surprised that people think that women are not oppressed and would be very grateful if anyone did answer my questions about human rights with respect to specific countries.

A ten year old having to go to court to get a divorce in Yemen
www.emirates247.com/news/region/child-bride-10-hid-outside-court-for-divorce-from-old-hubby-2012-11-05-1.481463

Iran moving to legalise marriage for under 10 year olds, following Saudi Arabia where 10 year olds can marry:
www.iranian.com/main/news/2012/08/23/iran-moves-legalize-marriage-girls-under-10-years-old

The plight of widows in India, Kashmir, Afganistan, Buhtan, Shrilanka, Nepal and Bangladesh
www.pucl.org/Topics/Gender/2002/muslim-widows.htm

Specifically on the dress code, here's a handy map of which countries require what and where there are laws and/or violence against women for not complying
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam#Dress_code

And finally here is a Muslim woman explaining all that is wrong with enforcing this mode of dress:
www.muslimwomennews.com/n.php?nid=6305

OP posts:
Booboostoo · 06/11/2012 15:03

So sorry I messed up the links!

To be honest I am a bit surprised that people think that women are not oppressed and would be very grateful if anyone did answer my questions about human rights with respect to specific countries.

A ten year old having to go to court to get a divorce in Yemen
www.emirates247.com/news/region/child-bride-10-hid-outside-court-for-divorce-from-old-hubby-2012-11-05-1.481463

Iran moving to legalise marriage for under 10 year olds, following Saudi Arabia where 10 year olds can marry:
www.iranian.com/main/news/2012/08/23/iran-moves-legalize-marriage-girls-under-10-years-old

The plight of widows in India, Kashmir, Afganistan, Buhtan, Shrilanka, Nepal and Bangladesh
www.pucl.org/Topics/Gender/2002/muslim-widows.htm

Specifically on the dress code, here's a handy map of which countries require what and where there are laws and/or violence against women for not complying
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam#Dress_code

And finally here is a Muslim woman explaining all that is wrong with enforcing this mode of dress:
www.muslimwomennews.com/n.php?nid=6305

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 06/11/2012 15:06

Booboo, no one here has said women are not oppressed. Jeez, all over the world women are oppressed.

Are you disturbed by the toy or just by Islam?

flow4 · 06/11/2012 15:06

Booboo, no-one is saying women aren't oppressed. Most people are saying that women's oppression has sweet FA to do with this toy.

When I look at a toy car, I don't think of Jeremy Clarkson's odious misogyny, either Grin

Growlithe · 06/11/2012 16:01

My, OP, don't you read a lot about Islam?

Anyway, I thought the Khaleeji family lived in Happyland? Do you have any links to any comment on women's rights in Happyland? I'd be ever so grateful.

WitchesTit · 06/11/2012 16:08

How do you know the bearded figure isn't a woman? On behalf of bearded ladies of the world (without discriminating against
other possibly inhabited worlds in the universe)
I AM OFFENDED*

*please note I am beardless myself Grin

flow4 · 06/11/2012 16:56

Oppression is rife in HappyLand, Grow, rife I tell you!

Bus drivers and farmers are always white and male ...

Nurses are always female and doctors are Asian men ...

Women are represented as 'little princesses' always in need of rescue...

... And the stereotyping of Martians is frankly shocking.

Growlithe · 06/11/2012 17:08

They've got a proper nerve calling it HappyLand really, haven't they flow? Wink

desertgirl · 06/11/2012 17:20

Booboo, of course there is oppression of women, in many (most?) countries, some of which are Islamic. And there is some pretty horrible oppression of women in some Islamic countries.

But the issues with the toy are not about oppression of women; these women are not being married off as children, nor is there any reason to assume they are being forced to wear this mode of dress. They are not wearing niqab. They are apparently (judging by the dress of the menfolk, if not the style of their home!) part of a culture where dressing like this is the norm; and one in which both men and women cover virtually all of their bodies when out in public.

There have been some ghastly things done int he name of the Catholic church. Ireland, Spain, Italy, etc, are Catholic countries. Are you disturbed by people wearing clothes of the type worn in Ireland or Italy?

I know it sounds ridiculous - but to associate this style of dress with oppression of women because it is worn by some Muslims, and some (a different some) Muslims live in societies which are very oppressive to women (or indeed to people in general) and like to attribute that oppressiveness to their religion, just feels wrong. Your link on 'the plight of widows' doesn't refer to anyone who dresses like this; this is not 'Muslim dress', it is the regional dress of part of the Muslim world.

And the packaging photo was probably dreamed up by someone in Reading or Milton Keynes or somewhere anyway - as I said, in the shop I looked in, the dad and the mum were sitting down eating cakes together!

flow4 · 06/11/2012 17:28

Grow, I can only assume their smiles are all brave, stoic and/or induced by valium.

gordyslovesheep · 06/11/2012 17:37

good lord have you still not grasped OP that the oppression of women is a) not only an Islamic pass time and b) Not actually what Islam is about

women are oppressed by many different faiths, by men who have no faith, by lots of people and countries and religions apart from Islam

you seem a little phobic of Muslims

desertgirl · 06/11/2012 17:38

gordy, you know what the common theme is there -

Men.

Maybe there shouldn't be toy men?

gordyslovesheep · 06/11/2012 17:42

yes - ban Buzz Lightyear and Action Man !

Surely Desert you aren't suggesting that men of a non Muslim persuasion might oppress women, beat them, rape them, murder them - why the very idea

Patriarchy exists in many forms and disguises

nailak · 06/11/2012 18:50

"A ten year old having to go to court to get a divorce in Yemen" The ten year old did not have an abayah on, so I don't get what this has to do with a toy about a woman wearing an abayah.

"Iran moving to legalise marriage for under 10 year olds, following Saudi Arabia where 10 year olds can marry:"
This article again says nothing about covering, where are you getting the link between women covering and child marriage?

"The plight of widows in India, Kashmir, Afganistan, Buhtan, Shrilanka, Nepal and Bangladesh"
The woman in the happyland toy seems to be married, and not a widow? would you object to a brown faced indian looking non covered doll in a sari because of the situation of widows? because thats what people in India and Bangladesh and Kashmir look like! they don't wear abayah.
Women in Afghanistan wear burkha not abayah.

Specifically on the dress code, here's a handy map of which countries require what and where there are laws and/or violence against women for not complying
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam#Dress_code

This link shows 10 countries where dress codes are required and veiling of the face is common, How Many Muslim majority countries are there in the world? let me ask google

around 50.

So we have to ignore the other 80% because of what 20% do?

And finally here is a Muslim woman explaining all that is wrong with enforcing this mode of dress:
erm HERE ARE SOME MUSLIM WOMEN TELLING YOU WHAT IS OK WITH IT, why would you listen to her over us? why should we listen to her?

anyway this is a newsclip of a niqabi debating with Hebah Ahmed

nailak · 06/11/2012 18:51

and that was just Muslim majority countries, not including countries with a significant Muslim minority, and Muslim enclaves, like Kenya etc.

nailak · 06/11/2012 18:53

those points in the link, I can go through them all one by one and tell you my counter arguments if you like?

or is there no point coz you have already made your mind up, without listening to those women who actually cover?

LynetteScavo · 06/11/2012 19:03

Happy Land wedding

I think EL think they are being PC having a mixed race couple. I wonder if they will soon produce a Happy Land Jewish wedding with a little rabbi, or a Sikh or Hindu or Muslim wedding.

LynetteScavo · 06/11/2012 19:04

I forgot Catholic wedding with a priest. Yes, that would probably offend quite a few folks.

nailak · 06/11/2012 19:17

Happy land wedding, how dare they have a wedding, do they not know that some women are forced in to marriages!! and that poor horse, do you know the stats on cruelty against horses? it is on the rise these days.

and why is the brown girl in the back eating cake? what they trying to say? brown girls cant wait for the photos before pouncing on the free food? lol

ChuffMuffin · 06/11/2012 19:23

The only thing that shocks me about the cottage is it's forty quid. FORTY QUID! Shock

pinkoyster · 06/11/2012 19:30

Lol Chuff, I know, bleeding daylight robbery! I was gonna get it for DS for crimbo but think I'll wait till the sales..! Failing that, MIL likes a sherry (or three), so may subtly suggest it next time she's pissed merry!

Boo, with every post you astound me more and more, you really do. You and a couple of posters from the 'muslims only carry out honour killings' thread should get together and knock yourselves out with the ignorance and prejudice..

LynetteScavo · 06/11/2012 20:33

Why are the Kaleeji family living in a cottage? Now I admit, not may people live in cottages, but if anyone is going to live in a cottage,but in stereotypical Land it should be a little old lady/man who works in the local post office and her small dog/cat. I think Happy Land need to create a NW London house for the Kaleeji family.

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