to find this toy disturbing?

[Booboostoo]

DM bought DD (17 months) a happyland fun fair set which was such good fun I was looking through their other toys online for Christmas inspiration when I found this

www.elc.co.uk/HappyLand-Khaleeji-Family/134473,default,pd.html

I really liked the fact that the fun fair set came with little people from all races, but I find this toy disturbing. Aside from the burkas, what's with the men sitting on thrones and the women tending donkeys?

DP is trying to rile me over it, so I have come to MN jury for some sanity.

What a pretty pony, such a luxurious mane! Like it's just stepped out of a salon.

I have no problem with the toy itself, I think representation of people from all cultures in toys is a good way to normalise cultural differences for children

But

I think, in this instance, the placement of the characters is unfortunate, and only to be expected from ELC. Agreed, in play, the donkey will sit on the throne and a postman pat van will probably take a bath, while the people are used as trolls under a brio railway bridge (or is that just my house?)...but the marketing and advertising of ELC is often very gender stereotypical, (see link earlier from PrettyHairClips) so I'm not surprised the females are working in the home and the men are taking tea in the garden in the advert.

So, not sure if YABU or not...

Are the men oppressed too?
Because they have their heads covered too...

Now, if the women were actually wearing a burka, you might have a point.

I know a few muslim women who wear veils that cover the head but not the face, who are strong, able and not particularly oppressed.

However, I suspect that in traditional societies this toy wouldn't sell much if the women were sitting in thrones/chairs and the men tending to the kitchen.

Even these days most advertisers target women for particular household items.
They are selling products, not trying to change the world.

I'm mostly disturbed by the brown bath and the seat on the tree...

As has already been well articulated the characters are wearing gulf regional national dress. I'm pretty sure no one in Dubai has been stoned to death in recent years for not wearing it

OP you seem quite determined to make this about the subjugation of women's rights but you may be interested to know that this morning my DD (8yrs) is off to the mosque on a school trip (gulf region). She is not required to modify her dress to do so and will be wearing a short sleeved, above knee length dress.

However the boys in her class are required to swap their knee length shorts for long trousers.

I appreciate I am beginning to repeat myself but:

• if it is national dress you should be able to take it off, vary it (e.g. change the colour) without repercussions, etc. which is not the case for women.

• men may chose to cover themselves up but to say that men and women have the same choices in this matter is grossly naive.

• yes, there are differences between extremist versions of the interpretation of dress requirements for women but as I am not writing a dissertation on it, they are not as relevant as the acknowledgement that women are oppressed and one of the expressions of this oppression is being forced to dress in a certain way.

• I have repeatedly said I have the same problems with other religions imposing the same standards of dress on women and I have repeatedly said I have the same problems with other stereotypes of women and other people.

There you go, link on UAE and dress codes
www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/be-respectful-tweets-uae-in-dress-code-debate-2012-05-14-1.458699

I would also be very grateful if someone could take the time to answer the substantive questions I asked about women's rights in at least some of these countries. It's all very well to say that it's better than I imagine and it's improved from before, but what is the actual reality then?

But the thread is about a toy, remember.

www.mothercare.com/HappyLand-Khaleeji-Family/134473,default,pd.html?singlehit=true

The second picture still has the women in the house, and the men outside sitting on their damned thrones.

It's just appaling that they couldn't be arsed to take different shots for the UK market. No doubt that they took these shots for their Gulf customers.

Apart from the toy,

You realise that we also have our dress codes.
Nudism is frowned upon and even forbidden in public in many countries.
Topless is not allowed in Brazil.

Yet, some societies walk around naked or almost and we have been imposing our standards on them.

You are also confusing religion and society. Many muslim societies are largely liberal towards headdress. Others demand full face cover and gloves, to the point that women are really limited.

In fact, in Saudi Arabia your toy might be considered subversive. And forbidden.

The point of the threads was the toy, right? ;)

They are not 'thrones' FFS! That is typical Arabic furniture (I live in the middle east). The men are just sitting there having a cup of tea. Leave the poor sods alone!

Here is a summary of dress codes for Dubai, would you say it is accurate?
www.guide2dubai.com/info/dress-code.asp

My favourite bits are the advice to women: "As skirts get shorter in length, there is a higher risk of male attention, police arrest and fine."

while for men "Men wearing shorts, although may be considered odd, are unlikely to get into trouble".

It's just appaling that they couldn't be arsed to take different shots for the UK market. No doubt that they took these shots for their Gulf customers.

Of course they did.
They won't expect many sales to White British families.
Would you buy it (never mind the thrones)?

Women and men fulfil traditional roles in loads of societies.
Read threads here and see how it's mostly the women staying at home and complain about men not doing housework.
Most of those societies are not actually that rigid.
And to be honest, to have clear roles does save a lot of heartache, just as long as the load is fairly distributed. ;)

Now, if you want to get upset about the sexualization of dolls. Barbie, winkz, whatever (I have one DS). I'm with you. :o

Booboo, the background to the dress code thing is tourists wearing beachwear to the malls - men and women. Which I do think is inappropriate, to be fair. And it isn't law; it is a campaign (started if I remember rightly by a couple of women).

There is a decency law in one of the Emirates (should be covered to knees and elbows, men and women - nothing about hair). I was infringing it (long shorts, but not to the knee) when an inebriated local crashed into my car out in the desert. I had to go to a very rural police station (car written off) and they were slightly embarrassed about my state of undress, hid me in someone's office so I wasn't visible to the public as thepublic might be embarrassed, but never mentioned breaking the law let alone applied sanctions.

I will reply to your other questions this evening, when not at work and not typing on blackberry!

Booboostoo, I live in Dubai and most of the time dress exactly as I would in the UK during summer (cotton sundress & flip flops). I do cover up a bit for Ramadan, but that's just being respectful.

I am unsure of the point you are trying to make, tbh.

Not read the whole thread but its a family...man and wife on the thrones.

It's cute.

Violet77, That's not a man and wife. That's a father and son. Mother and daughter are kept at the back/ in the house. You can tell by the clothes. People on thrones in sun-reflecting white = males. People in the background in heat-absorbing black = women.

Booboo, I did answer your question (yesterday around 10am).
But I notice you didn't answer mine about Barbie... :)

They are not bloody thrones!!!

Incidentally, men in the middle east like nothing more than sitting around nattering and drinking coffee. That is why we have so many Starbucks out here. Don't see what's wrong with that, tbh. Actually, if it was culturally accurate, the women would be at the mall.

They are thrones, the product developer says so:

"Director of Product Development Sarah Boyle says: ?Welcome to the Khaleeji?s! What a wonderful addition to the Happyland family. Designed for small hands and inquisitive minds, Happyland mirrors the world we see around us with close attention to detail making it so charming. I particularly like the throne chairs. I?d love some for my house!?

Read more: www.chillnite.com/7612/2012/10/the-khaleeji-family-now-available-at-the-elc/#ixzz2BQjIhOmc

Yes, crescentmoon, I believe it is

flow4 I was referring to the specific questions about women's legal and human rights I asked above, I can't see any responses to them just yet but perhaps I am missing something?

I think I did repeatedly answer that I have a problem with all sterotypes and specifically mentioned a plastically enganced mum toy and a Americal style pageant girl toy as equally disturbing. Barbie would fall in the same category.

I am not seeking to ban anything, either toy abayas, toy Barbies or the real versions - you have me confused with certain extremist versions of world religions.

"enhanced" even!

Which are "these countries" to which you refer?

The difference between tolerances and traditions between Lebanon, Saudi, UAE, Syria and Iraq are as about as broad as you can imagine. Lumping the "middle east" or "Muslim countries" together is not going to get you any answers