To put DC, aged 8 and 9, in Economy while I fly in Club with a 2yo and the nanny

[firemansamisnormansdad]

OK, so it wasn't actually me. But I boarded a flight from the USA yesterday and was shocked that this Mom did this to her own children. I have heard that people do this. Is there ever any real justification? My DH was sitting next to them and the little girl was getting quite scared at the turbulence. The Mom said that she would send the nanny down and swap places with DD during the flight, but she never did. I could never do this - I want my precious ones near me during a flight, especially an 8 hour one!

I have waved at my children whilst I turned left...

14 and 12 are quite different to 8 and 9. If they are fine then I'd have no problem (but would probably warn the cabin crew in case I was needed). I'd probably not do it with mine, but then my 14 year old suffers with her ears when flying and can get airsick. (But she has just come back from flying to France with the school.)

I agree, 12 and 14 are very different to 8 & 9yo.

A 12 and 14 year old will be absolutely fine by themselves. They'll probably be thrilled not to be sitting near their embarrassing parents

Bloody amazing idea. I used to fly as an UM and my kids do too, so they wouldn't bat an eyelid, and it would mean I could do my Princess and the Pea thing in the posh bit of the plane, without having to fork out for them to have business class tickets, which they wouldn't need or appreciate anyway. Bring it on, I say

Might save them a petit four out of slight guilt, but it would only be very slight guilt, believe me

bisjo the possibility of an emergency is redic small.

But I dunno, you could say that about anything couldn't you? What if they were in a friends car and it crashed and you weren't there? What if they go out on a jet ski with their dad and crash and you can't get to them to help? What if you go out for a night and get a baby sitter and there is a fire?

Can't live you're life like that...

In many cultures this is totally acceptable. Because your 8/9 year old would be upset, doesn't apply to every child. Because you think it's something only a horrible person would do, doesn't make her a bad mother. I can understand why people from 'our' culture would be upset by this, but seriously, we are one of the most 'namby pambiest' places on earth with the way we parent our kids. Don't assume that the kids feel unloved or uncared for - it's most likely normal to them. Maybe they look at your kids and feel sorry for them having no independence .

At least no-one could abduct them at 30,000 feet!

I would love to sit apart from my kids in club and they would probably at worst be indifferent to it but I still think at that age its a cheek inflicting them and their fidgety ways on strangers just because I would prefer not to sit with them.

I would also have no problem staying in a 'better' room in a hotel - trading up for me and dh to a deluxe room and letting the dc sleep in a standard room. As long as we were all near each other, on same floor, preferably next to each other.

But I expect that some other mnetters would also see this as a form of child abuse.

I've been on flights that have made an emergency landing - one I don't know what the cause was and the other the engine exploded (I was sitting next to it and saw flames shooting out of it and had to move from my seat as we were going down the runway to take off). I wouldn't have wanted my dcs to be many yards away from me on either occasion.

I think I'm on the fence with this. I think at 8/9 the children should be able to manage a flight on their own (thinking of diplomats' children, army children, friends whose parents worked in Africa, or other parts of the world etc) when their parents can't travel with them. I don't think there was anything wrong with the children being in economy and the parents in business/first but I do think the mother handled it very badly.

Had it been us I think I would have left the nanny (although in our case would have been au-pair and we never travelled with her) with DH in first/business and would have swapped for equal periods of time with one child at a time. Wouldn't necessarily have paid for the dc to have business/first tickets and DH would probably have been reacharging to a client if he had travelled business or first. Actually DH would never recharge me, morally, to a client so I probably would have had an ecomony ticket with the children. Shudders at Mnet response to DH in business and me and the dc in economy . If we were going on holiday we would all have been in economy because we simply would not spend money unnecessarily.

I have never flown neither has DC so I would book us all in the same class.

Lynette and squoosh, thank you for support and Boffin I will remember what you said and chuck them the occasional petit four!

For the person saying we are nambi pambi and maybe those kids feel sorry for the sheltered kids, let me tell you a brief story:

At 8 years of age, me and my sister age 9 were left alone in our chalet on the island of Corsica when my parents went touring around for a few hours with my 12 year old sister and baby brother. They got lost and we (8 and 9 year olds) were left alone with about a fiver and a litre of wine to fend for ourselves for over 12 hours. We walked to the local shop in the searing heat and bought some cokes and then returned to the chalet in the middle of the day. We waited and waited. We were actually crying in bed wondering who would end up rearing us as clearly our family must be dead (about 11.30 at night) when they arrived in to us.

Not nice.

Just because it might be acceptable in other societies, doesn't make it correct.

Mollydoggerson yes that's not a nice thing to have happened but I'm not sure how it's fully relevant to sitting in separate classes on a plane.

So until yor children are 16 you're never going to be apart from them at all?

Yes I don't see the relevance myself, upsetting though I'm sure it was.

I wonder what would happen if the adult in the next seat refused to sit next to the unaccompanied child - does anyone know?

I ask, because I would. For the next few years, at least, if I'm flying, I'll either be with my DD - in which case I have my own child to deal with and will not have the time for anyone else's child - or I will be alone, probably for work, and will therefore be busy - and not have the time for anyone else's child.

I would, therefore, be politely requiring either the parent (or the airline) to make other arrangements. One party or the other is either making or saving money in that scenario, and I'm blowed if it will be at my (or my DD's, or my employer's) expense.

Sit with them, get cabin crew to supervise them properly - i.e. sit with them, or pay me my hourly rate to play babysitter!

I certainly wouldn't have had the two year old in club - it's for businessmen trying to get on with some work and people who want peace and quiet! So one adult in economy with them definitely...

Weissbier, the 1950s called, they want their 'businessmen' back.

Yes sorry, not very relevant. I was a little tipsy and it seemed relevant to me at the time.

I think the point I was trying to make is some things are considereed acceptable in some cultures which are simply not acceptable at all. Just because a certain culture considers x acceptable, does not make x gospel.

The plane situation is hard to judge but in general, yes I would frown upon it. My children sleep in a seperate room in our house, but that argument is not really relevant either. The big difference is that on a plane you are leaving children sitting beside other adults that you know nothing about. Alcohol may be consumed, odd conversations may be had, you are leaving them in a situation where you cannot protect them.

Quite right, SoSo! Working mothers and fathers never need to travel with young offspring in tow, of course they don't. Anyway, the front of the plane needs to be kept free for the More Important People whose comfort needs must always come first at all times. For those people who don't understand the concept of More Important, here is the list, in hierarchical order:

Wealthy white menopausal women in well cut black trousers and pashminas.
Baby boomers on their tenth holiday of the year.
The purposefully childless, who see children as a designer lifestyle accessory rather like lapdogs.
Men suffering from executive stress.
Quite posh people with hip problems (I am to be found in the last category)

We are supposed to be pampered, while everyone else needs to go in the back of the plane and be all squashed because that is the natural order of things.

As soon as everyone understand that, the easier it will all be.

Molly, are you for real? Alcohol and odd conversations representing your major concerns? How bad is it going to be on a plane? A drunken orgy with your kids plied with Martinis before being propositioned, while parents read the FT up front oblivious to all?