not to contribute to the Shoebox Appeal

[teamboleyn]

because it has a Christian message 'attached'? I have nothing against Christianity but can they not do a charitable act without having an ulterior motive?

It's not just a 'leaflet', alias, it's this booklet here .

Their annual report - here makes it very clear that the shoe boxes are only a vehicle for spreading Christianity - 'the greatest gift':
"From start to finish, Operation Christmas Child partners with local churches here and overseas as we collect, ship, and hand out shoe box gifts? all for the sake of the Gospel".

Have a look at both documents. If you are happy to support this kind of evangelism, fine; but have no doubt that their aim is to convert children to Christianity.

That's really interesting and useful, trocodile, thanks for posting it.

I've done it, I used your words trocodile hope you don't mind

aaghh I hate making a fuss, but its my DDs last year at primary school, and I may not get the chance again.

Feel very proud that you think my words are worth using! Good luck with the school, let us know what they say

I think part of my problem is that many of the sources for criticism of this kind of programme view it from the pov of thinking that any evangelism on the part of a religious organisation is wrong. I don't share that view but I do concede that some forms of evangelism can be repugnant.

I don't object to the inclusion of leaflets, storybooks or the like in shoeboxes containing gifts given without conditions to people who have very little.

MsHighwater - I'd recommend reading the PDF trockodile linked to a few posts back: "The gift matters", by a group of Canadian churches, I think. It looks at Samaritan's Purse from a Christian as well as charitable perspective. Worth reading.

Just been reading it as a matter of fact. I stand by what I said, though. I accept that clumsy, patronising and ill-informed efforts or those made with an ulterior motive can be harmful but I'm not prepared to dismiss all gift projects because of that. I would not want a world with no justice, only charity, but where there are wounds, someone needs to "bind them up" while justice is doing its bit.

Thanks Exepat, I thought it was interesting. Ms Highwater, nobody is suggesting not giving or that charity is not a good thing-rather that it is appropriately directed which is a good lesson for our kids too.

Whenever I send for things through the post they come with leaflets-I take them out and they go straight in recycling-I never read them. I can't think why the people who receive the shoe boxes are any different. I would be very surprised if anyone on here conscientiously reads through everything they are sent, and they must have too much time on their hands if they do!

Exoticfruits-we look at this through a first world perspective, we are bombarded with junk mail, advertising, cheap plastic give a ways-eg Happy Meals etc. most children who are receiving these boxes are looking at it from a completely different cultural mindset.

Exotic - really, you can't imagine that a child in an impoverished community might be any different than from adult living in a complely different culture, and with a massively different level of financial autonomy??

This is why there are aid agencies that don't just imagine everyone is the same, but go and ask people what it is they want help with. None of them say please send shoeboxes of tat.

We are going around in circles- it think it very sad that people can't understand that a child who has never had a present might find it joyful. I have only done it once and there was no tat!
I would love someone to tell me how many conversions there have been-I suspect none. I can't imagine 'wow-a present-I am going to be a Christian!'

Find something else to give to-there are plenty of alternatives.

We are only going around in circles because people are not reading the links or acknowledging what is in them. States here in their own literature that " millions of children are coming to Christ"
www.samaritanspurse.org/pdf/2011occsr.pdf
If you are happy with that and want to send a shoebox then that is up to you. I prefer that my efforts are useful and have no wish to help this charity try to bribe children and convert them to their own form of right wing Christianity.

And that is the one of the points of this thread-to help people who wish to find an alternative to Samaritan's Purse.

How do you know that it's going to a child who has never had a present. They may not have had the same presents that your children get exotic but it's a bit off to assume that these are children without parents who do the best they can.

The orginal OCC (before it was taken over by Samaritan's Purse) did indeed take presents to Romanian orphanages but the focus has completely changed.

Trockodile, I'm simply not prepared to accept that the existence of criticism of one organisation's motives and methods proves that all similar efforts are malign. Evangelism and propaganda are not synonyms. I believe evangelism can be done appropriately and with all requisite cultural sensitivity. I just find it difficult, when reading the comments on this thread that criticise OCC, to know whether the critic is objecting to the form or the mere fact of the evangelism.

There are of course other shoebox appeals. We are, through our church, supporting one run by Blythswood Care. They add age-appropriate Christian literature (storybook, book for teenagers, calendar with Bible verses).

I don't think that it should put people off finding alternatives. Our local Tesco does a giving tree-it has no ulterior motives. Children like to be individuals, with an individual that cares, and not some faceless charity case.
You would think that ones that people are complaining about are the only ones-just find a suitable one. (I would still be very surprised if they get any conversions-I can find any figures)

MsH, I assume you're a Christian, and think it's reasonable to convert children of other religions and none to Christianity? I don't, so I would never choose to support OCC - and I think a big part of the problem with them is that most schools and parents in the UK do not get a choice, because Samaritan's Purse are not open about their mission/aim.

There are many, many other charities (both non-religious and religious but non-proselytising) which are doing essential, life-saving work and giving gifts at Christmas. Unless a school specifically wants to participate in OCC's mission to convert children to Christianity, I think it would be better to pick one of these others.

exotic, I haven't found any specific figures either, but Samaritan's Purse says "millions" ( www.samaritanspurse.org/pdf/2011occsr.pdf ). I hope they wouldn't lie about it.

Probably 'economical with the truth'.

Havn't read the whole thread but have just filled my shoebox ready to be collected.....it's blooming lovely and I just hope the child who receives it gets a lot of pleasure from it, I certainly got a lot of pleasure doing it.....

So... 10% margin of error...? Make it at least ONE million then...?

Haven't read all of this but will be asking questions at DD's school after half term. We've been asked to do a shoe box for Rumanian (sp?) children, our local Baptist church are collecting them. I've bought loads of little gifts already and was really looking forward to wrapping them up with DD but not sure if I should be participating in it now.

And my mum has just done hers.....we're not evangelists, zealots, whatever, we're just people who really hope that we've brought a bit of pleasure to a child that doesn't have much in their life.