not to contribute to the Shoebox Appeal

[teamboleyn]

because it has a Christian message 'attached'? I have nothing against Christianity but can they not do a charitable act without having an ulterior motive?

Info from the OCC website on what they say they do regarding evangelising.

Neither is it what the (far more openly evangelical) American arm of the organisation tells its supporters, Dowager...

Our RC primary is doing this.
I have emailed Head with my concerns, nowt back.

Even if you discount the fundamentalist/anti muslim/hindu/catholic thing, the carbon footprint is massive for this.

Oh and yes, Christmas is Christian (if you discount the tree, yule log etc etc).

Charity is good, my DC would love to pick out shoeboxes of stuff for others, I know they would, they think I am evil for not participating, but not this one.

I've read it and still don't see the problem. So what they bung a happy clappy pamphlet in there. What's wrong with that?
My kids get a book mark sent every yr from their local library, with the library printed on it, encouraging them to go.
What's the difference? What's the problem?

Someone up thread said the did a box through the Samaritans. That'll be Samaritans Purse then.

So many people seem to think it has something to do with the UK Samaritans. I mentioned the dodgyness of this charity to someone and they said 'oh no you've got that wrong, it's The Samaritans that do it, you know, the people who talk people out of suicide'. .

Everyone has a bias and the sources critisisng it will have just as much bias even if they hide it better. Just because an organisation is Christian doesn't make what it says automatically a lie.

People can do what they want but I think it's really sad that people are taking suh pleasure in a stance against this charity that seems just as evangelical as the allegations they make.

Make your own decisions but I wanted to put the other side of the story forward as I felt it was so extremely sad that people were taking such pleasure from this and stating their position as the gospel truth.

And I choose my words very deliberately.

I have written this in the past, so you may have heard me before.

We used to live in Kazakhstan. The boxes were given out there. (operation christmas child)

The boxes were given to local churches to distribute. They were not given out at Christmas (actually the idea of christmas presents is pretty much a western construct and not all western countries either. My dh is dutch christian, they don't do gifts at christmas. I lived in Indonesia, christians there don't do gifts at christmas, Kazah and Russian christians - protestant evangelical, catholic or orthodox christians - don't do gifts at Christmas)

anyway, the churches do not give them out at christmas. Often at New Year (gift giving time in Kz) Often saved and used through the year.

Thye were given out in several ways, some churches used all ways, some one way or another. They were given out to children in the church; They were given out to all local children in the village/neighbourhood, with a message of greeting from the church; they were given out to local families for them to give to their children; the local children were invited to a party and given free food and a box, and a book or an invitation to church; they were put in the present sack of the equivalent of father christmas, who comes at new year.

So yes they are definitely given out by and through the church. In most cases I knew of they were given out to everyone in an area, the church was used as the agent to distribute them. The distribution was definitely with a christian message (like a leaflet) but was usually given to everyone without prejudice. This does also mean that they are given to all children not just the poor ones.

I have mixed feelings about them. Our school has sent home a leaflet, not sure if I will do them or not.

Is it bad? DSs nursery are doing Operation Christmas Child and I was all set to do a shoebox

I am no fan of organised religion and certainly not of converty types, but surely a child will get some stuff and be happy

What's the score with them? Is it really that bad?

Assume the library aren't trying to convert you with The Greatest Journey.

What people don't like is the mixing of 'aid' and religion. Not to mention the poor economics of transporting the tat. Oh and using children to convert children. OCC is an evangelising organisation.

I read up on this last year. The scariest stuff I found was on the OCC's own website - but the US one. The UK one plays down the evangelising.

I also think, on a smaller scale, it's like the "girls with flicky hair and ugg boots going to visit African orphanages" (see another thread) - in that the money spent packing, collecting and flying a shoebox full of stuff somewhere could really be better spent. But that doesn't make the giver feel quite so warm and glowy inside, presumably.

Thank you for your post steppemum, apparently our boxes went to Kazakhstan last year (first year I'd done them) so it's good to hear what happens there.

I started a thread about this a few weeks ago (under the Christmas topic) and got the heads up about OCC. So I gave money to a similar, non-religious, scheme in Africa.

The school now wants us to do OCC shoeboxes but I won't be doing so.

Flojo have you seen the "happy clappy leaflet"?

It's insidious. Very very confusing for a child of another faith. It basically insinuates that good children are "gods children", it jnvites the reader to to make a choice today to becone God 's child and has a space at the end in a faux certificate style for them to sign and date to say they have done so.

Nasty nasty nasty.

steppemum thankyou for that wonderful insight.
I don't see the problem.
My only issue is when u said they weren't just given to the poor. On one hand I think its great that everyone gets one, on the other, I know when I did my box I made the assumption that the family would be very poor.

Can anyone link to an impartial, objective account of the criticisms? That discounts the humanist society, of course.

Not sure. Depends on how old your child is and whether they would understand your reasoning. Not only that, they would poss need to be able to field questions from teachers or friends.

It (occ) was done badly at my dd's school. She is 4 in Yr R and very vocal repeating things. In the street: "mummy, we have to make a box of presents for the POOR (very emphatic and loud) people. They NEED SOAP. More talk of poor people needing soap as we went round tesco getting the stuff. I was embarrassed. I would have said to the kids that some people have more stuff than others and it would be nice to give a present to a child whose parents couldn't give them a box of Christmas presents. I will have to speak to DD but I am not really sure what to say or how to say it.

BungleBear, I would check if I were you. Are you sure it's the Samaritans and not Samaritan's Purse. Samaritan's Purse are the organisation that runs Operation Christmas Child.

Ah welsh that's different, I haven't seen the leaflets and the implication there doesn't sit well with me.
I struggle with the whole Xmas thing anyway, the whole concept of naughty and nice children and only the nice children get presents etc. Horrible.
So that has changed my mind completely, however I will go and hunt for such leaflet first.

in that the money spent packing, collecting and flying a shoebox full of stuff somewhere could really be better spent

I dare say it could, but the disadvantaged are like anyone else, they want to be an individual with someone who has thought of them not just one of a mass that you give money to as a charity case. I'm sure your DC loves unwrapping a Christmas present or opening a stocking rather than you saying-'there are better ways of spending the money'. You are giving a child pleasure-a child like yours. Do you not feel a warm glow when your own DC has a nice Christmas-is this wrong?

Everything Samaritans Purse do is in the pursuit of getting "a hearing for the Gospel, the Good News of eternal life through Jesus Christ."

they do what they do to convert; "Shoe box gifts lovingly packed by people and families in the U.S. become ministry opportunities in the hands of Christians overseas"

Quotes directly from their own site.

There are many, many more efficient and more helpful ways of helping aid overseas poverty than these folks.

I struggle with the whole Xmas thing anyway, the whole concept of naughty and nice children and only the nice children get presents etc. Horrible.

Well it would be! What a weird view! Why on earth would you tell a DC that presents depended on behaviour?

I did samaritans box last yr (occ the yr before) I assumed it was thee samaritans not a different organisation entirely, that is very misleading.

There's a charity in SA called Kidz2Kidz which is non-evangelical (a far as I can tell) and which does a shoe box appeal. The only problem is you have to pay the postage costs to SA and you have to get it done by mid-October (I missed it this year) info here although I'll probably need to re-post this in August next year!

exotic I don't personally. But I hear it a lot. It's in a lot of Christmas music and I've had ppl say to my dc's, oh u better be a good girl else Santa won't come etc.

www.operationchristmaschild.org.uk/journey-of-shoebox

It's a bit like they hide in plain sight. What they are really about is all on their website.

If you scroll down to Distribution of a Shoebox section it's all about church, gospel etc and though they don't say on the UK website, the shoebox is the first step in the conversion process. Then The Greatest Journey programme.

On the US site they state that 'every shoe box is a gospel opportunity'.

Didn't they get their knuckles rapped by the Charities Commission a few years ago?

My favourite article about them is from a man of the cloth, Giles Fraser, formerly of St Paul's. www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/10/religion.society

Evangicals who gift wrap islamaphobia, indeed.

Oh, and both OCC and Samaritan's Purse play down the Evangelical purpose in the UK and play it up in the US.

I find it irksome.