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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that 60k is a lot of money to earn a year?!

938 replies

MinkSlink · 25/10/2012 19:53

I think it is a lot of money to earn per year but it seems a lot of people on mumsnet don't think so, am I in the piss poor minority here or what?!

OP posts:
GhostShip · 27/10/2012 23:54

I love how the higher paid would rather argue that the lower paid go in hostels, than them downgrading their houses.

Shows how ridiculous your statements are. We've shown how you can still afford a house, albeit a cheaper and not as nice one. An you retaliate in saying us on lesser money should be in hostels. Nice comparison

I don't want to be on mumsnet anymore after comments like these. I really don't.

EleanorBloodBathsket · 27/10/2012 23:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheBigJessie · 27/10/2012 23:59

I seem to remember an MNer who was a social worker or something saying that her clients' circumstances run through entitledto.co.uk would get one figure, but the real one was much lower.

Anyway, if GhostShip had a baby, that extra money would be swalloed up by... The baby. I mean, the childcare element? Not really money in GhostShip's pocket! Meanwhile, going to university with a baby- difficult. Training and working as a student midwife with a small child? Also difficult.

EleanorBloodBathsket · 28/10/2012 00:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheBigJessie · 28/10/2012 00:04

Erm, hostels have waiting lists... You have to be homeless. And not "intentionally homeless".

I used to live in one, so I know that. They're not walk-in and get a bed. (And a hostel as your address doesn't look good on job apps.)

TheBigJessie · 28/10/2012 00:08

Eleanor you can interpret it that way if you like. I thought I was saying that "have a baby and you'll be rich off the state" was short-sighted.

GhostShip · 28/10/2012 00:09

My phone won't let me inbox you Jessie. But I wanted to tell you thankyou, anyway.

TheBigJessie · 28/10/2012 00:14

Don't worry. And you know, you are totally right about them being unsafe. The downgrade from house to grottier house does not compare with the step between own home and hostel.

I generally felt safer in the hostel then my previous circumstances, but that says far more about my previous arrangements than it does the (nicer than others) hostel. Grin

EleanorBloodBathsket · 28/10/2012 00:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LibrarianByDay · 28/10/2012 00:18

It's just occurred to me - I should have abandoned my terminally ill family members in order to move to a cheaper area, shouldn't I? Then I wouldn't offend people by not having had as much much disposable income as they would like to believe I had. How utterly selfish of me!

inabeautifulplace · 28/10/2012 01:00

"My only point on this thread has been that actually 60k wages can sometimes not be a lotof money. That's it."

Maybe you should have made another point.

Offred · 28/10/2012 09:28

But ghostship you live in a one bed flat, there are several steps between that and a hostel like a one bed flat in a crappier area, a house share, a bedsit/studio flat... It's not what I believe you should do anyway.

My whole point is not at all that I think this crap about choice is valid in any way but that by making the choice argument it is people on lower wages/benefits will be harmed. To be completely frank people on £60k are not receiving any significant state aid, they may be struggling they may not be poor like people of other wage levels but they have nothing to take off them and I havent seen any of them pleading poverty just objecting to being silenced about the difficulties they are facing and objections to being told they are rich when actually it is possible for some of them to have the same level of income as people claiming benefits/on low wages when you take everything into account (yes this is wrong but the answer isn't to take away top up benefits like this government want). You start feeding this argument about choices the lens will be turned onto the poorest the most harshly because that is what this government is about.

Let me tell you a little about why I think what I do: primarily because I have seen both ends of the spectrum. It's not something I haven't talked about before on here but you obviously haven't seen so.

I had a pretty crappy childhood; physical, financial and emotionally abusive and left to live with my boyfriend at 16. We lived at his parent's 3 bed house with his younger brother who he shared a room with, his sister and one of his older brothers whose gf also lived there and his two parents. We had no bed so we slept on a single mattress on the floor and I qualified for bridging allowance of £11 per week which I had to buy all my food etc out of and I had taken up smoking because I was depressed (bad choice) we used to pick cig stubs out of pub ashtrays/off the floor and re-roll them.

After a while things improved with my parents a bit and I went home, I got a job working at the funfair (was 17 but told them 18 for higher wage) on low pay, long hours, lots of dodgy people, I was drinking a lot to cope with living with my parents (bad choice), after a work night out my line manager raped me. Obviously I lost my job but only after being bullied by everyone at work about being a "prick tease". Losing my job made my parents really angry.

I got another job in a pub shortly after my 18th birthday and met xp. After a while he moved back down to his family on the otherside of the country and I went with him, he was abusive; sexually (in case you don't understand what that means it involved showing me horrible porn he expected me to act out if I loved him, taking condoms off until it was pointless asking him to wear one, sleeping around, filming me, groping constantly, having sex with me while I was asleep, constantly expecting sex, having sex with all my female friends) financially, emotionally, psychologically and also physically controlling (not letting me go places/speak to men) I attempted suicide, various things happened; him sleeping with a 14 year old girl he worked with, him disappearing off for days on end, him stealing the rent money and blaming it on me, our housemates stealing/damaging all my stuff, his mum threatening me and chucking a drink over me because he told her it was me who stole his money and his stuff that got stolen, eventually we had to come back up here (bad choice).

I went back to my parents but couldn't stand it and stayed out as often as I could, was working in pubs with xp, got pregnant and he forced me into an abortion (yes it does happen in this country), one time he took me to a house I didn't know with a load of people I didn't know off their faces on drugs and told me if I didn't take ecstasy he'd leave me there by myself. That was how I started taking drugs which was another way to block out (as well as alcohol) everything. Before long I was actually homeless and sleeping on random couches/staying with friends. Xp went away to work abroad and I stopped taking drugs but was still drinking a lot but working in bars so wasn't costing money an still homeless, I'd go home with blokes to have somewhere to sleep, obviously some of them thought I owed them.

I had a kind of boyfriend who I thought was pretty nice for a while and stayed with him, he was a pretty serious alcoholic and a lot older than me and he also raped me whilst really drunk, thought that was normal though and didn't leave until he threw me down two flights of stairs when in a drunken rage.

That night I had literally nowhere to go and the most amazing and kind man offered me his bed, this turned out to actually be his bed and he slept on the sofa for 3 whole months. I was earning £20 per week from one night's bar work. At this point xp had come back and I got pregnant again but this time I had been sorting myself out with a proper job and no alcohol so we got a flat. Xp was still abusive around Xmas time I had had enough of him disappearing off with other girls all the time and he had well and truly isolated and humiliated me and so I refused to allow him to have sex with me and he raped me. After that he went and stayed with his mum/other gf and when he came back he tried to make me pay out of the child benefit/tax credit for the bills he hadn't paid (I already had all food, clothes and shoes, my PAYG phone and the household Internet and gas); he got the joint benefits claim since he had left his job and my SMP had finished and he was getting the HB too. It turned out he had not paid anything and had instead just put all the money into drinking, smoking, drugs, fruit machines and drinks for girls.

We had a huge argument and he pushed me down and grabbed my son out of my arms and I called the police who made him leave for 24 hours and he never came back.

After he left i found the debts, i also did a pg test and when he overtly raped me i'd got pg. Whatever debts he'd got against the flat (rent and some historical council tax) I got debt to pay off and I started my own benefit claim which was like freedom after being completely financially oppressed before. Fortunately my landlord was great and on my side saying he was glad xp had gone and telling me a load of stuff he'd been saying to him about me (which he hasn't believed).

Lots of things came out of the woodwork about how he had isolated me from everyone by telling them lies about me and how he had stolen stuff from people and blamed it on me. He brought what was deemed in court to be a vexatious proceeding against me in family court, he used the police to bully me, lots of horrible stuff for about 3 years after he left.

I've now been married for almost four years and yes my DH has a high income, if he gets a good bonus it can be £60k, we decided to try for a baby and got twins and we have, because of our age been in need of housing at an unavoidably expensive time. We live hundreds of miles from dh's contracted place of employment because we couldn't afford to live near his work. We live in an ordinary end of terrace house in the crappiest area of town with the highest levels of crime and horrible neighbours who deal drugs and smoke weed around our children when they are in the garden and who have massive dv rows at 4am and are constantly swearing and shouting, we can afford one crappy old car and we can't afford a paid for family holiday although we can use my parents' holiday home and we do have a weekend away for our anniversary without the children. Fortunately we can afford to pay for me to go to uni to study law because on my current level of education as the wife of a high earner childcare currently prices me out of the job market. None of this makes us poor but it sure as hell does not make us rich, which is all I think anyone has ever said.

GhostShip · 28/10/2012 09:33

I'm not even here to argue my point anymore, but I just want to say that you've been through a hell of a lot, and I respect you.

Offred · 28/10/2012 09:33

There is not a "lesser" house we could move to, we already live in the cheapest one, even if we rented.

Thisisaeuphemism · 28/10/2012 09:36

Offred, thank you for sharing your story.

You are going to be one shit-hot lawyer.

BadLad · 28/10/2012 09:55

I earn a little over 60,000 when converted, and know I am very lucky. I'm astounded that anyone would disagree that it's a lot of money to earn in a year - the fact that some people who earn it piss it all up the wall doesn't change the fact that it's a lot.

Offred · 28/10/2012 09:59

I couldn't hack being a lawyer I think euphamism! Would like to do legal/sociological research or advocacy work. I do some community stuff now because I can't afford to work but can do voluntary stuff which has crèche/expenses or allows me to bring the twins.

Really I don't want to fight with anyone, I don't want anyone to fight amongst themselves, I'd like everybody to have enough which I think is possible but I think the people we need to be angry with are people like IDS who has four children and a £2m home paid for by the tax payer, a salary of £134k, kitted out his office with £20k's worth of (army posturing aristocratic) art at the tax payer's expense etc

Offred · 28/10/2012 10:00

Euphemism even Confused

EleanorBloodBathsket · 28/10/2012 10:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hardboiledpossum · 28/10/2012 12:36

I'm joining this thread rather late but am shocked at some of the responses. A number of posters seem to think that a family would struggle to live in London on 60k? While they might not be rolling in it they would hardly be struggling. My partner, myself and our DS live in a fairly nice area of London (private rent) and survive on 28k. We not entitled to any benefits other than CB. We both manage to socialise at least once a week, go out for dinner occasionally and have a holiday every year.

Offred · 28/10/2012 12:50

You've got one child possum. You would qualify for childcare help even now and if you had another child you would get tax credits. It doesn't compare to someone with a large family so all it tells you is you do alright, doesn't tell you what other people would get or need.

hardboiledpossum · 28/10/2012 13:09

I am aware of all of that. My point is that if we can manage in London on 28k then I'm confused why a family with two or three children would be struggling on 60k. They wouldn't be rich but hardly struggling to pay their heating bills and for food.

Offred · 28/10/2012 13:10

Because they don't get help with childcare, they don't get £60k after tax and their income doesn't change depending on the numbers of children/dependents in the household.

Offred · 28/10/2012 13:13

And to be fair what was being discussed was the purported "fact" that no-one would struggle in any circumstances on £60k which depends on a lot of factors other than what someone's salary is.

Thisisaeuphemism · 28/10/2012 13:17

Most have agreed it is a lot of money for one year. Many have simply tried to point out that 60K doesn't automatically make you "comfortable" because there are other factors involved.

I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

I think, anyone who bought a house before 2008 is rolling in it.

I think, anyone who inherits, or expects to inherit more than £100K is super-rich.
There, annoying isn't it.

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