To think that 60k is a lot of money to earn a year?!

[MinkSlink]

I think it is a lot of money to earn per year but it seems a lot of people on mumsnet don't think so, am I in the piss poor minority here or what?!

Trust me, I am not able to get any benefits. You can run it throught any checker you like, I'm not entitled. Tax credits start at 25. I have no children.

27k? what a fucking joke. I receive my wages. that is all.

Yeah but the thing is I have never seen anyone moan about being poor on £60k but I have seen a lot of people saying people on £60k have made bad choices if they aren't rich on that money and question the "little tristram's school fees" thing at which point they get shouted down about claiming poverty and not knowing what it is etc etc. In reality this "choices" narrative is actually total shit. Millionaires make poor choices and end up with nothing it is just an extension of "I saw them all queuing at midnight to get their dole so they could go to the pub" and IDS'"it is your poor choices and fault you don't earn enough to keep your family" it is demeaning and untrue and ultimately if people keep using this argument it won't be people on £60k who end up suffering because they are already largely unsupported by the state it will be the people who "chose" to have children on £20k and "expected the state to give them a free ride" who will also be expected to live with the "consequences" of their "poor choices" - can't you see what I mean?

*when they question sorry!

Eleanor
do you realise how INCREDIBLY arrogant you appear, telling people how much they can claim on benefits because you've looked it up on a website?

you UTTERLY prove the fact that those who live on higher incomes do not understand about living on lower ones - and how offensive it is to be told "have a crap wage because the link I've seen says your finances are theoretically the same as a richer persons"

you really, really need to butt out of theoretical numbers
and have more awareness of how many people you pass in your day to day life who earn less than the median wage

Well now I'm 21, I have more going for me than you had. I don't live in squats and dirty house shares where people can rob me and try to rape me.

Illustrate all you want, people have already shown that if you control your circumstances 60k is better. some of us have no choice.

Housing Benefit £0.00 £0.00 The amount of benefit you are entitled to has been reduced by £47.55 because you have non-dependents living with you. For more information see non-dependent deductions. How to apply for Housing Benefit
Total Entitlements £0.00 £0.00 weekly

this is mine. Now see how I cope?

TO SIMPLIFY, I cannot claim anything. I'm 21, trying to hold down a single bedroom flat, feed myself, and go to uni. oh and look after an alcohol dependance mum who has suffered a mindfuck of brain tumour and cervical cancer. Not easy.

My husband and I both work full-time and earn around 60K between us. Do we feel comfortably off?

When both of my children were in nursery and childcare fees were costing us £1000 per month and we were paying off a car loan to enable me to get to work, then no, we didn't.

Once both children started school and we had an extra £1K a month to do with as we pleased, then hell, yeah! It feels like winning the lottery every month!

So, it IS all relative.

Then that's where you find a cheaper one. Like I did.

I think I know what you're trying to get at. My perspetive is that I come from a background where I guess in today's equivalent, my parents earned £60k (no where near that at all), however, we always struggled as a family and it was mostly through bad choices which were then compounded by bad luck. We ended up paying a heavy price through a domino effect and I learned as a teenager to deal with bailiffs, creditors constantly calling and writing, and, ultimately know what it is like to live in a hostel for homeless people. It has made me naturally appreciative of what I have today (I earn more than £60k), am naturally conservative in my spending habits and realise that having a naice expensive home is not a right because quite frankly anything that doesn't involve living in a homeless shelter is good. A lot of people (that I know) on over £60k don't think that way because in my experience they compare themselves with their small circle as opposed to the whole of society and end up struggling because they over stretch themselves.

I am in a very fortunate position but still have an appreciation of how little others have to live on - and how they actually live.

I have seen this through my work - and I am not in social work or healthcare. There are people with barely a couple of pennies to rub together - a poke of chips to them would be the equivalent of dinner at the Ritz.

M

But ghost - why do you get to tell librarian to find a cheaper car but librarian couldn't tell you to live in a house share?

Also what are these choices you keep expecting people to make - live in worse housing? Well you won't do that, you chose to live in a one bedroom flat not a bedsit or house share? You want someone who has already been violated once to have an abortion or send the child to live with the rapist maybe? What then? What about contraceptive failure? What about twins or triplets? You just think you should have selective abortion?

It is through bad choices sometimes but not always novice. The main thing is that that could be said about anyone - oh you can only earn £15k - why have a child? Bad choice... Oh you can only earn £15k? Should have worked harder in school... Bad choice... See what I mean? Struggling on £13.5k at 21? Live at home and stop crying poverty... Bad choice... NONE of these things are things I believe but they are actually the REAL things this Government are actually saying.

(And more to the point the real problems, they are conveniently hoping we ignore while we fight about who made worse choices)

If Ghostship was referring to the cost of my car - it was already second-hand (well, fourth-hand actually) and 9 years on, it is still the car I drive 80 miles a day to work and back. I was hardly profligate!

And no, I could not/cannot get a job in the area I am qualified in any closer to home which, I am anticipating, is the next suggestion.

Offred - whilst you were able to make a point at the start, yours have now failed miserably and your last one was particularly offensive.

Oh, and I can prevent myself from having children. But why on earth should I still live at home when I'm paying tax? And I don't cry poverty. I just resent those who do when they're onviously not

I suspect after all your posts defending, you've never experienced life like a lot of us have. I'm glad you haven't.

eleanor

did you see the bit on that benefit checker that said something along the lines of these figures do not guarentee entitlement? there is also a fairly clear disclaimer that will also state that the figures may not be what you actually end up with.

some benefits have an impact on other ones,as well as different regulations. its only intended to be used as a very basic thing.

as well as some benefits changing the sums you may get from other benefits other factors need to be taken into concideration as well stuff like house size and type of landlord ect.

i constantly have people telling me they should be getting xyz based on that perticular calc (as well as the direct gov one) that is massively different to what they are actually entitled when you concider everything.

'But ghost - why do you get to tell librarian to find a cheaper car but librarian couldn't tell you to live in a house share?'

This comment alone shows your sheer ignorance and unworthiness to argue this. If told me to live in a hostel, it would be like me telling her to walk to work through a place with a high rape statistic. Get it right.