AIBU to be surprised how few people know all UK state schools include compulsory Christian worship?

[TheMightyMojoceratops]

The law in England and Wales states that ALL state schools "shall on each school day take part in an act of collective worship... wholly or mainly of a Christian character". All UK state schools have to do this: at least 51% of collective worship - often embedded in assemblies - has to be Christian. And this is worship, as distinct from education.

Yet I quite often see threads on here where people are surprised to find their children are coming home saying things like "we said thanks to God today", or "it makes me sad God died for me"... Christian worship is a legal requirement in school, even if it's one I disagree with. Most people I talk to seem unaware of this and express surprise when it's explained to them.

AIBU to be surprised that more parents aren't aware of this?

Hardly anyone does because they don't want their child to stand out or they don't know. I don't want the first thing my child hears every morning in an educational establishment to be superstitious lies.

They miss out on a lot of school business if they are removed from assembly. It simply isn't a fair representation of the situation to say 'they can be removed' - it means partially removing them from school life in a way (and in a way which matters to a small child - they love being part of the school imd).

I don't think "broadly Christian" makes it any better, it is still 'worship'. And the inconsistent interpretation of "broadly" surely only adds to the confusion and suggests how unnecessary this piece of legislation is?

I don't think opting out is fair - even if you're aware that you have the option to opt out of this thing a lot of people don't seem to know about, at primary age, I don't think the child truly understands why he or she is being made to miss out on what his/her friends are doing. It sets the parents up as the bad guys. Primary school children don't have the sophistry to understand the arguments and make up their own minds.

We teach our children to trust what the teacher tells them and do what they say in all areas of school life. To have the same teachers delivering religious worship does not sit well with me.

If my DC choose a religion when they are older, I will support that but worship is not something that should be part of his/her schooling, in my opinion. There are ample opportunities outside of school to follow a faith if you/your parents choose.

It is worse here in NI. Children are exposed to 2.5 hours per week of religious instruction. Not a religious school, either, it's the Integrated one. The RE curriculum teaches the literal truth of Xtianity and does not even nention other religions until KS3.

If I want my kids removed, then I have to provide supervision and alternate activity.

I was one of the children walking out of assembly. Luckily, my best friend was Jewish and walked out with me. It was just a lucky coincidence. Otherwise one of us would have been walking out alone. Do people really think that this is good for children? Because, on other threads, people who want to not have their children hear this stuff first thing in the morning, are told to suck it up, it's not that bad, why so they care?

The interpretation of 'broadly Christian' means most schools have assemblies which are based on what they belive to be Christian values, such as honesty, giving, kindness etc. Most schools do not go in for very religious assemblies unless the staff are practising Christians. I seem to remember something about giving children a 'sense of the numinous', which can mean just gazing at a lighted candle.
I suspect it dates back to the days when Churches were the main providers of education. In this town the two schools were originally the CofE and the Methodist schools and it was probably like that all over the country.

I don't have a problem with this. I don't believe in God. I don't go to church. I don't have a problem with children learning about God, singing hymns and saying prayers. They will still end up making there own decisions just like I did and just like millions of others did (in fact I think there is far less 'worship' in assemblies than there was when I was a child which I find sad because I loved singing hymns!)

I have worked in 2 schools and can't remember more than a handful of Christian assemblies in the decade I worked in schools. It doesn't happen as much as you think from my experience. My teacher friends have said the same (obviously church schools would be more often).

The law in England and Wales states that ALL state schools shall on each school day take part in an act of collective worship... wholly or mainly of a Christian character"
Are your certain OP?
According to google there are indeed state-funded schools teaching other faiths.
e.g.
www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=moslem+state-funded+schools

Yes I'm amazed, and used to post that people should join the campaign for secularism.

Then I realised that people just like to hoik their Bosoms and get really angry- we see the same threads, every Easter, Christmas start of School year and Harvest Festival. People don't really care, they just like having a moan.

Sallyforth, what you refer to is, as mentioned upthread, where the SACRE exemption has been invoked: you have to provide alternative worship. You still have to have worship in school (or opt out and exclude your child, which as also discussed upthread, is far from ideal).

I care, I've emailed my MP (if anyone else wants to there's an easy way through the Humanist website here) and supported the campaign for secularism, but I do wonder if helpyourself is right, maybe it's not an awareness issue, but that not enough people care. Or maybe most people are actually fine with it and the parents I talk to aren't representative of the general view.

Yes I understand about the alternatives. But the OP specifically stated Christian worship being compulsory which is apparently not the case.

I expect it's different at primary when you can get the whole school together, but my state secondary school doesn't do any collective acts of worship at all. Kids have a weekly assembly but the only time I've heard God mentioned was when the Gideon society came in to plug the Bible.

Ofsted outstanding.

I don't think secondary schools give a crap about the requirement for the most part.

As noblegiraffe - same with my state secondary.

Kids have assembly weekly - different day per year group. I've yet to attend a 'broadly Christian' assembly there in 14 years, unless you count a quick reading & a couple of carols before we break up for Xmas.

Mind you, we're only 'good with outstanding features'!

It's about as effectively enforced as the ban on home taping.

Well, continue to be surprised as DD1 starts school next year and I had no idea there was this requirement. She is going to the bog standard local primary and as such, I would expect there not to be an emphasis on any one religion. I'm surprised.

However, as long as they are taught about all religions in RE, I can't say it bothers me, unless they're evangelical about it!

Your OP isn't quite right: As my DC are at a jewish faith school and the "worship" at my DCs school is jewish not christian. Although yes they do have prayers each day.

Also I think that you can ask for your children not to take part - when I went to school I didn't take part in the Christian worship as I wasn't Christian. I didn't stand out as there were quite a few of us - TBH sometimes I went to the normal Christian assembly but just stood there quietly (ie not taking part).

But what the actual fuck is it for? If it didn't already happen there's no way you'd be allowed to introduce it.

Well, I did't know this until recently either, and was surprised.

The schools round here (London, multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, probably majority atheist parents), get round this by the "worship" not being, as supposed, prayers, but rather more of a Pause for Thought (led by the Head) during one assembly a week about issues like thankfulness, honesty, respect and awe for the natural world, kindness etc. Broadly Christian, but not worship.
In addition, as well as learning about religion in RE, special festivals and what they represent are mentioned in this Assembly.

At my school (secondary) it became 'moral discussion time' when the entre sixth form rebelled against being forced to worship...

I don't mind it because I plan to ensure that dd is exposed to many religions and beliefs, the combination of which will apparently (according to some study or another) inoculate her against extremist religious views (as a minimum).

I really don't understand the attitude of so many people on here.

Religious belief is a personal choice. If, as an adult, you have chosen to be a Christian or Muslim, then fine. But you have no right, nor invitation, to demand that children talk to your deity on a daily basis.

There is a vast, vast difference between leaning ABOUT religion, and being required to actively worship something that, frankly, almost certainly does not exist.

You may think ebook that there's no reason to change, but you would think that, wouldn't you, being a Christian yourself. But how about if we all started forcing children to go through "auditing" a la the Scientologists on a daily basis?

There's no difference at all between talking to a bronze age desert god & a bunch of alien spirits trapped in Volcanoes (or whatever the fuck Tom Cruise believes). Neither are supported by the tiniest shred of evidence & therefore should play no compulsory part AT ALL in state funded education.

Yes, we can opt our children out. But we shouldn't have to. The default position should not be "worship" and it appalls me that in this day and age it still is.

Your personal beliefs are your business Christians - kindly stop trying to force them into the lives of people who are simply not interested.

Almost entirely in secondary school, it is, as someone said upthread, reflective. So, things like talking about an inspirational person, or about living life to the full. Not actually religious at all.

crikey, I assure you many Christians (and Muslims, and Hindus, Jews, and atheists, etc. etc.) do believe that personal beliefs are personal. Please don't assume all Christians want an act of worship to be taught in school.

As fair as I recall it was just a prayer at the end of assembly. Despite this,I grew up to be atheist. So,daily worship clearly had no effect on me. Nor was I ever bothered by it.

I really don't see the issue.