to not understand how peiple afford to live?

[pregnantpause]

I'm so fed up ATM. Me and dh work, me part time, as young dc, we live in a very cheap area if the country (and I suppose our wages reflect that), jointly we bring home under 26 thousand pa). We get 40 a month tax credits, which doesn't seem much, and I've just got a letter to say they've over paid us by 200 in the last year. HOW? Forty quid a month, and that's overpaid? How do people survive? Paying that back will take us into overdraft ans furture payments will now be around twenty quid less? Are we the scroungers everyone talks about? Am I the lazy feclkless parent that won't get a full time .job and sponges off the state? I can't go full time, my employer has no hours to give. Dh can't get a better paid job- there are none. With energy bills going up and food costing the earth how do people live. I seriously worry that people with even a little bit less than me will be pushed over the edge, old people, disabled people, how can people afford to survive now? Aibu to think that it won't be long (or already happening) before people are made homeless, just because the cost I'd living is so far apart from what we earn?

btw in 20 years once the rioting and protest is over and the population here have 'adjusted' (ie got desperate and accepted drastically lower wages for longer hours), we might be 'competitive' once more. That's precisely what the Tories (and probably Labour too) want.

Just checked my old bank website. The current charge is NZ$5 a month, unless you pay in more than NZ$2500 a month. I guess the improvement is a new account where you pay as you go, with NZ$0.40 per automatic transaction!

There are families who are struggling through no fault of their own.

There are others where parents choose not to work.

When my eldest was six months old, I was made redundant and my husband lost his job six weeks later. We lived on benefit for six weeks then he got a job in a shop (had been an architect) and I started to teach music at home (I'd been an architect too)

Our income fell through the floor. I shopped in the sell by date reduced section, cooked everything from scratch and limited portions, and managed on cash only to avoid temptation of credit cards. We lived like that for two years until I retrained and got wirk first and then he found work.

Finding work meant moving to another part of the country. Being stuck with the house we had left behind as it wouldn't sell and struggling to rent, then buy another.

My family income is now well beyond four figures pa. spending has expanded to use all of it - it always does. I still don't feel well off enough to stop work - worried that the now 3 dcs would miss the lifestyle they enjoy at the moment.

What am I saying? I guess you can come out of it. You can cope. It is tough but people who want to get by have to work. Part time can become full time, local work can be replaced with city work which pays more. Qualifications can be gained.

My sister in law always wanted to be a SAHM but her husband found getting work as a self employed worker harder and harder so she retrained and now has a career as an accountant.

The safety net of benefit is designed to be exactly that. Not a lifestyle choice. It is to help when you are in a tight spot. If you are in that tight spot, map your way out.

Four figures Net?

All that for a whole £9,999 a year net?

X post

What a smug, arrogant and complacent post, netguru.

Entirely sums up the 'I am alright Jack so so should you be of this entire era.

But netguru, it is ridiculous that families where both parents are working are struggling to SURVIVE. As we have read on this thread. Taking children out of the equation a single person working full time, say in Tesco, would not be able to afford to buy a house (for example) Not everyone can be a high earner. And for many families (mine included) both parents working full time would bring in LESS money than 1 patent working full time and 1 working part time due to child care costs.

In the UK work is not paying. Salaries have not kept place with rises in housing, fuel and food costs. And IMHO it's only going to get worse.

gah! edit function! quote after 'you be' required :D

People in netguru's position are often ok (and will probably remain so unless the whole system collapses, which is a definite possiblity) because they benefited from the massive property price increases of the late 90s/2000s. They mistake this for benefiting from their own hard work and brilliance.

For someone that asked about the MUMSNET VERSION OF FREECYCLE

Look at this

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/other_subjects/1474481-I-have-x-if-anyone-is-in-need

domestic goddess netguru wrote "Being stuck with the house we had left behind as it wouldn't sell and struggling to rent, then buy another." so I don't think that they necessarily benefitted from massive price rises in their property! Particularly those that bought over the last five years are quite likely to be in negative equity. Owning a property that nobody will buy and you may be renting out, possibly at less than the mortgage cost, can leave you further out of pocket. I have been trying to sell a property I don't live in for four years now, at any price really, it costs me money each month, I would be happy to sell it for what I paid but in some places there just are no buyers!

I don't see it as ridiculous that people have to live on low incomes. I do see it as unwelcome and unsustainable which is why I posted as I did.

Rather than add more whining or whinging, or looking at the post and thinking 'not my problem' and clicking on next thread I thought as I had been there, I'd add another view. If it makes one person say OK, life sucks but I'll broaden my horizons, retrain, get some qualifications, think about starting a business, then I didn't waste my time completely. For those of you who just wish to moan, well I wasb't ever going to get you to think was I?

To those who picked up the four figures, yes. I didn't make a mistake. Not that it's relevant, i have no wish of 'steakth boasting or whatever to a load of people i have never met and never will. I just thought it was illustrative that things change.

emsma yeah I cannot be sure re. what netguru actually made out of property.

I bought in 2008, so I feel that pain precisely!!

Never taken a penny out of property appreciation. Despite the oft quoted 'landlords are bastards' on here, a lot of us just got stuck with stuff.

It would really not be right if I swanned on here and said 'darling, cash in your second property and you'll be fine'. It would be ridiculous and of no help.

oh lord now she's saying that the rest of you are 'whinging and whining'...

If there is no money for food/childcare/utilities, how exactly is one supposed to pay for the qualifications which (supposedly) improve income?

The government makes a loan for a degree but NOT if you already have a degree. I expect that quite a few posters on here are graduates.

Dolomites - here, here on your comment on wage increases since 2003 - I too stumbled across payslips from back then and was mortified to find I'm barely earning more now and like you say, can't afford half of the things I did then.
I often joke I was richer as a student - I look back now and wonder if with 'student offers' how on earth we could spend so much time in pubs, bars and fitting in some travelling too..

I also echo the post about cost of living being cheaper abroad - certainly my experience of spending time in Eastern Europe with a young baby/toddler is that everything is at least twice the cost - Aptamil milk (or whatever they brand it at) costs a staggering 18 euros and even in the local Tescos all the things like kids cups etc are at least double what they are here.

In answer to OP's original question YANBU to wonder - I wonder this frequently and it's certainly a constant discussion with friends / family about the rise in absolutely everything.

Wow this whole thread is shocking reading. So sorry it's such a struggle OP and yes it does not seem fair. As a country we have been living beyond our means for a long time and come to expect a certain level of living. In other countries for example extended families live together but we expect a family home of our own. Elsewhere children often starve to death which is something we almost never see. I wonder if we are heading for that sort of poverty? If so there will certainly be big riots.

For practical advice it's all about the budget - earn as much as you can and spend as little as possible. Cut up credit cards and get rid of debt as quickly as possible as its throwing money away. Get specialist advice if you can't pay essentials like rent or council tax. Have you tried foodbanks etc?

But wow, I am just coming away with the understanding of exactly how lucky we are to be able to shop for food each week and get on a bus without worrying about the cost. Thanks for the wake up call.

domesticgodless... yes feeling the pinch with no equity in house either having split with ex-partner in 2008 and paying him off at higher value than now. And yes, I totally wonder how on earth people (drives me mad when people say it) are expected to go and 'retrain' when lots of qualifications cost thousands.

Last post to domestic godless

I said practical advice is better than whining or whinging.

No one has suggested that people who have posted elsewhere don't have a reason to be concerned, just that adding more helps no one and practical advice may help some.

Like I said. I was there. Afraid to warm the house. Scavenging for cheap food. Worried to open the post. Despairing if anything broke as repairs weren't in the budget. I turned it around - perhaps with a degree of luck but do you want women to feel stuck and hopeless or hopeful and empowered?

I'm currently retraining. Do not qualify for any free or subsidised help so am paying it upfront myself. It has NOT been easy to find the money and we are going without things to fund the course. We are fortunately in a position where we had a little disposable income that we could divert into financing this instead. I know people who have NO (or virtually no) disposable income. How are they supposed to retrain if they cannot fund it?

Netguru, with all respect, your missing a few important points. Tax credits changes mean that many people won't be able to retrain, or start their own businesses. In fact, those who wish to do so will find themselves penalised and will lose money.

So, anyone who finds themselves redundant or who has their hours cut is not going to have the same opportunities that other people have had.

In short, people can map a way out all they like, but there will be too many barriers in place, unless you're very lucky or very crafty. Possibly both.

I for one don't welcome these changes, because I'm convinced that crime will soar and that we'll see some more riots.

Tbh I've seen this coming since 2008, which is why I've moved out of a major population centre and into the country. We didn't have any riots here the last time they kicked off.

exactly stuntgirl.

False positivity such as offered by every flipping government and jobcentre is no help at all imho, the country is in a dire mess. It is also global.

Tent cities are springing up in the USA as they are 10 years further down the road than us in terms of the demolition of the middle class.

I am seriously frightened for the future tbh. Not so much for myself (although I've no doubt got it coming as am divorced and work in education :D) as for others who will go over the cliff edge first.

Me and dp are on a combined salary of 50k before tax and we can afford feck all but we still have a roof over our head. We've got a 125% mortgage we took out cos we figured it was better than renting and being graduates we were promised fantastic wages. Reality is due to the high mortgage payments, the increase in everything and mounting debts from doing things to the house we struggle but we still have mobile phones and enjoy.
one night out a month so I feel very grateful. But I do wonder how I would manage with children too which is the main reason I haven't had any yet!

I'd love to say we really enjoyed getting into debt and drank and smoked our way into it, but I guess living in a house where water isn't leaking from the plumbing is a type of enjoyment...

In comparison friends that bought their houses 5 years before me, earn less and never studied are better off because their mortgages are in some cases a fifth of ours.

Ah funbag I wish I had the option of moving out of London :(

sadly no option due to divorce and shared residence (imposed on me).

I saw the rioting last time and I'm surprised it has not happened again tbh. These young people have little to lose, most of them, and prison time will not put them off.

We're getting to a stage where post-April prison will offer them a better standard of living than they're currently getting.

It's a time bomb waiting to go off.