Feminism is Over according to NetMums

[WorraLiberty]

AIBU to think that given the reoccurring threads on here, if they had asked MumsNet to take part in the poll, possibly more than 28% would have said, they find the radical feminism of Germaine Greer too aggressive towards men, and no longer view it as a positive label for women?

Or do you think a MumsNet survey would have thrown up similar/completely different results?

Link to Daily Express story

geegee888
"Surely in any online forum targetted at mothers, there is going to be a higher than average representation of non-working mothers, who are hardly likely to be radical feminists?"

Really? I've been a "non-working mother" for over 11 years, I've been a feminist all my life! I've become a Radical Feminist since being on MN. Do you really think if you don't work you can't be a feminist?

I haven't trusted polls since I read that 62% of women had affairs during their lunch hour. I've never met a woman in my life who would give up lunch for sex.

Erma Bombeck

Have also read that thread on surrendered wives. No wonder the survey had the outcome it did. Who knew that opening up a new tab on Internet Explorer could cause time travel to the 1950s and before ?

What does surrendered wives mean?

Submitting to your husband, having sex with him even if you don't want to, not nagging, allowing and being happy for him to make ALL decisions, for him to provide financially and the woman to stay at home. The old love honour and obey routine. Can't bring myself to type anymore of that crap but you get the idea

I was irritated to hear this survey discussed on my local radio station as a news item this morning (more time spent on it than the economy, grrr). The feminist they had brought in duller-than-ditchwater - a milder than mild academic - and the 'non-feminist' was a young, hip, woman who managed to sound plausible despite her best argument against feminism being: 'We don't need it anymore - all my male friends think I'm their equal'.

I agree the sample is small, but to be honest, I do think the poll is more representative of British women than a MN one would be

Why wouldn't a SAHM be a radical feminist? Feminism is about choice, and that includes the choice to be a SAHM.

Feminism isn't about choice. That idea came from the argument about abortion and the slogan about women having the right to choose to have one. It was never about the right to choose to be a SAHM or otherwise.

Feminism is about women being treated equally legally, socially and politically first and foremost.

Sorry but I find it frustrating when feminism is reduced to choice as you can't have choice, in my opinion, without true equality.

It works both ways though, as you can't have equality without choice. If there is no choice, and expectations are the same for all women, then there is no equality.

her best argument against feminism being: 'We don't need it anymore - all my male friends think I'm their equal'. - See, I get this from younger women, and I actually think it's a good thing in a way, most younger people do believe there's full equality between them.

But that's only true in the West, for a start. And it all starts to unravel later on in life, typically once children are added to the equation. I do find it extremely when bright, articulate young women can't see things like Malala being shot as being linked to feminism and therefore being relevant to them.

I've never really understood the sneering at Netmums.

They're about as representative of mothers as Mumsnet is, as in not very.

I've never met anyone in real life who uses either.

To pick up on an early point, I don't think non-working mothers are any less likely to be feminists than working mothers. I don't make my lifestyle choices according to my own social or sexual politics, I do make them according to a wealth of other factors including my health, my finances and my happiness.

Additionally I object to that article making sweeping statements about what 'women' believe about feminism. All that survery demonstrates is how x number of women who happened to answer a survey on a website that only x number of women use, believe about feminism. It's sloppy, faux 'research' that tells nobody nothing.

Agree, Attila. I think that the rivalry between Mumsnet and netmums partly has to do with the two sites being in most respects so similar. Its what Freud called the narcissism of small differences. It is like the fierce rivalry between any close, similar regions -- like say Gateshead and Newcastle. To outsiders the similarities make the differences invisible.

I would agree that until you have children things do feel pretty equal. But as soon as you have a child and find that only you are the mother are able to take leave for the first 20 weeks of the child's life so the expectation is you will be primary carer whether you like it or not; that only employed fathers can take paternity leave from when the child is 20 weeks old but a large proportion of fathers are self-employed so there is no equality of choice; that you are paid less than men and child birth and when children start school is the biggest debt to your earning potential; that you are unlikely to progress as far in your career because you are a woman; that the expectation is still that women will take responsibility for childcare; that your partner expects you to take on the majority of household chores; that school calls mums first; that it is very difficult to get back to work after a career break; that you are more likely to be made redundant if you are a woman with children; that once you have taken a period of maternity leave if you are working you will earn proportionately less than your male counter parts so it's probably not a financially viable option to split leave with subsequent babies etc etc etc

Yes those are generalisation and not every case applies to every woman but the fact remains the odds are stacked against us still.

There is little point in asking a bright young thing who is still riding high on her superior academic achievements, employability (most professional graduate trainees are women) and generally outstripping and outwitting the men at every opportunity. They need to ask those same women in 20 years time when they are no longer leading the pack despite having has the initial advantage and we should be asking them what they think about feminism.

Sorry Worra I just realised I didn't actually answer your question.

I think results from an MN survey would certainly be different and I think a higher propertion of respondents would identify themselves as feminists. But then, if the survey was as dreadful as HoneyDragon describes, the majority of MNers would probably not have completed it.

Coleen Rooney and Jordan as feminist role models?

Oooh and as anyone will tell you I'm on MN all the fecking time but I work ft and then some.

Do they have a big, glittery ticker for how many days feminism has been over for?

Do you think the papers get confused about Mumsnet and Netmums, and report stuff because they think it's Mumsnet saying it?

Interesting question Edam. I think the media don't even attempt to differentiate between the two sites. We're just a bunch of mums aren't we?

Which is a feminist issue in itself.

Thanks Blistory, for saying what I want to shout every single time a discussion degenerates into the 'but isn't feminism about choice?' argument.

I would think there is an element of that, edam.

Oaty

'It's what Freud called the narcissm of small differences'

There's a sentence you wouldn't find on Netmums right there

I don't doubt for a second that a survey of Mumsnetters would have yielded very different results.

Yes, there is a hardcore, very committed group of non-feminists on here, but (and I admit without ever actually having been on Netmums ) I'd venture there are far more on there.

The demographic on here is very different. Educated, intelligent, well-read, questioning, enlightened. You do the math.