My friend's ds has autism, she would like my ds to spend more time with him.

[BatwingGirl]

I find this very unfair on ds (6) as he has made other friends at his school who want to come round and play. Both boys have pretty much grown up together, seeing eachother since they were babies. They go to different schools but as her ds has become older, it's become more challenging to have a decent playdate without tantrums every 2 minutes. I've tried to see my friend more while the boys are at school, but she tries very hard to time it for after school so that the boys can be together. I didn't want to say it to her and have said I'm busy after school, weekends I've stopped going out with her and the two boys as there will always be a scene in town. She ends up leaving him with me, walking off in a temper herself. It's very stressful.

For the last few weeks she has been coming round with some excuse (to see the kitten, to see the new rug, they made biscuits) and I can't exactly say no. She asks my ds to play with her ds (7) in his room. I don't like them being out of my sight as I know her ds can get very aggressive if he doesn't get his own way. My ds who does not know about his condition ends up very frustrated and scared. I'd like to keep my friend but not force my son to have to be his friend if he doesn't want to. I know if I say it to her she will really take offense. She feels like she has no one else and other mums from the school have dumped her since his diagnoses.
I just want an easier life. When Ds's other friends are round, they are like angels compared to my friend's ds.

A friend is not someone who makes you laugh while ignoring all the hard things in your life and editing out the parts they can't be doing with.

That situation is one which is most likely to cause seething resentment and anger, not laughter quite frankly.

Amber, she has to cope, she is alone Monday till Friday. She just has to.
But Ops friend can get there, if OP is being a friend to her and willing to listen and talk.

It isnt always that straight forward. some people really do struggle even though they 'have' to cope.

I imagine having support at the weekend helps lots too.

I agree that OPs friend can get there, but I really hope she gets helpful support, whether its from the OP or elsewhere.

You definitely lose friends though, some jump, but also some will be pushed, I stopped bothering with some that weren't understanding [thats putting it politely]

The person who said you don't need to use Asperger's aas a term is right, that's not how you teach about difference. Asperger's is a term that seems to be misunderstood by IME a majority of adults anyway, tbh. All iot is basically is autism with no language delays and an IQ of average (depends where you are, average here is classed as 60+. have seen 65 or 70 also) ability.

Now it has no bearing on severity of behavioural, social difficulties or any of the rest of it: ds2 is mod- severely autistic; ds1 who has asperger's is far more difficult day to day. I have research somewhere showing no difference in parent's perceptions of behavioural difficulty across the spectrum.

When you talk about difference you start by talking about little things- so with ds4 I would say he is different because he has curly hair, that Daddy is different because he doesn't go to work (is self employed, mostly works from home)... things a child can talk about. you expand it to include people in your social circle: for me that would be friends who use a wheelchair, or are athletes: contracts a child can understand. Then again expand to talk about this child- his positive points, and how he is different- he expresses emotions by flapping, can't share yet. Don;t just focus on disability: the world is so much wider and more wonderful! Colour, religion, sexuality (my best friend is gay so an obvious one for me)..... and little things: Grandad can't drive, Mummy can;t draw, Daddy can;t dance.... the world is a wonderful place full of such variety and part of that is disability, when we expose children to the full variety of humanity we give them a great gift. And we also teach them a damned good lesson about being comfortable with who they are themselves and their own intrinsic value.

(Obviously people on here will have different views about when to teach a child about sexuality, I'm fine with 6 in generic terms but know many won;t be)

urm couldn't you introduce her to mumsnet? (maybe not this thread:)) Next time she is round have it on the computer. Then ease her into the sn section? She might find a few friends who are in the same boat?

tell her you want to explain to your son about differences has SHE got any information.
Again playdates where you can see them until you or her get more info on how to handle the situation

oh and good luck you are a nice person as you are trying to find out how to sort out the situation. sometimes though, you do have to make your own boundaries and say no. I don't have time to see my best mates at the moment so i know i would begin to feel resentful in your situation.

Peachy - with you on the generalised people are all different thing

(and yes - I have no problem with saying to DS1, who is 8, that so and so, who is male, has a boyfriend. He thinks girls are really yuck, anyhow!)

And also, without any comment on your ability as a friend, OP, I think the suggestions to introduce your friend to online SN communities are a good idea. I'm new here (9 years, natch) and realising that DS1 had difficulties preceded any chance to form friendships. I have a tiny army of people, locally, whose shoulders I could cry on, now, but there is absolutely nothing that beats, right in the middle of the sort of meltdown you can't envisage ever ending, being able to log on to twitter, ravelry or MNSN, simply type AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHH or DEEP BREATHS and have half a dozen jump in and say "I know"

What a hard situation. What about autistic society for groups/supprt?

This thread has been very difficult to read. Your friend sounds as though she is really struggling. And she needs a friend right now. I can understand why she would turn to you: a friend who has known her for years, who has known her son since he was a baby, who has a similarly aged child her son can play with. I agree with some of the suggestions on this thread, about supervising the boys more closely, arranging some structured play, perhaps meeting in the other child's home or a neutral setting like a park. But just dropping your friend, or rejecting her child at a time when she desperately needs support, would be really unkind.

My eldest brother is autistic. His childhood was a nightmare. He was mercilessly bullied. At best he was ignored. The schools he attended were worse than useless in addressing the bullying. He was (and is) constitutionally incapable of violence against others (though he has had extremely worrying phases of self-harming), which made him an easy target for the bullies. Although intellectually more than capable (he is quite brilliant in some ways, far more intelligent than the little bastards who made his life a misery), he could barely cope with school, and at one point my parents pulled him out entirely, something that was unheard of in those days (1970s).

My parents were in deep denial of the extent of my brother's disability for years. To some degree they still are. His life has improved a great deal as an adult, though he continues to face challenges. His social interactions tend to be only with family members and a few family friends who love him and enjoy his company. He doesn't have a job, and I don't imagine he ever will, despite his intellectual abilities. Every day he has to cope with a world that is incomprehensible to him. And yet he faces that world with a kind of bravery I could never aspire to. I think he is the bravest person I have ever known.

I have often thought that he would have had the chance to reach his potential if my parents had been able to access the sort of resources that are now available. I have also often mourned the fact that he grew up in a time that was intolerant of disability. If only he were a child today, I have mused, perhaps he would have the chance to learn about friendship, develop his social skills, become more comfortable and confident. But this thread indicates that maybe I'm kidding myself. Although attitudes have certainly changed for the better, it sounds as though they haven't changed nearly as much as I had hoped.

That's really sad for her. It sounds like she needs you.....

That's really sad for her. It sounds like she needs you.....

What about asking if he wants to do football class with your son? That way they are together but in an organised fashion and with some space. Your friends DS might enjoy the rules and regulations of the game.

Your son is just as important as your friends boy. How does your son feel about things? Can you explain autism to him to help him understand? Can you ask your son what would make the play dates more manageable for him. When are the times that your friends son plays well? Can you talk to your friend and explain that your DS is struggling with things and you would like to change your play dates to suit your sons needs. This might mean using a different location, activity etc.

It sounds to me like the other mother is dropping around very frequently with very little notice. From what others have posted this doesn;t seem to be the best way to have successful time together. This suggests that may be she doesn't YET have the experience or support on how to deal with her son in the best way.

Rather than just say "no" to playdates that haven't seemed to work to date and "yes" to swimming and tennis maybe show your friend you care by doing some research (there is a lot of hekpful advice here amidst the abuse) and saying to her that certain structured things work better and maybe you could organise some? ANd then say the SN forums were really useful and point her in their direction. Then you are helping by organising so she doesn;t have to, and hsowing you are taking her problems seriously. You also need to talk about how you can calm her boy down which she is happy with. She really can't expect things to proceed as if every environment is one he will be able to cope with.

Then you could put the ones which work well into the calendar regularly and at a frequency you feel your family can deal with.

Maybe you could organise it so she gets some time for herself now and again too once things have improved.

Aside from the badly worded post about invting to birthdays etc it is clear that you haev been a good friend adn would like to continue as such but that you need some help and direction on achieving this.If you didn;t you wouldn't post.

And she does need to input too - walking off and leaving you is highly irresponsible, no matter how overwhelmed she is feeling (and would be with any child). You probably need to tell her this, no advice on how to broach it though.

I also think you need to explain the other boy's differences to your son, you don;t need to use the technical terms but there are posts on here on how to do it in a sensitive context without prejudice. Your friend doesn;t want you to but it is not fair on either of the chikdren not to. And as other people have pointed out once children undertsand there are differences; and why; they are capable of more tolerance themselves. Without this then unsolicited contact (can't remember the word used in other posts) will alarm your DS and he won;t want to play.

Also if you manage to acheive this then she amy be more willing to visit without her DS sometimes so you can have a proper chat and maintain your "adult" friendship

Welcome to the mental mine field. Autism Spectrum Disorder is a life changing S storm. My youngest DD has ASD and it is without a doubt a VERY daunting thing to deal with. Most parents, when their child is diagnosed with ASD have little to no understanding of the condition (I had to google it to finally understand what specialists were telling me)

Im truly appalled, but not actually surprised, by the actions of the other parents. Becoming isolated while trying to cope with a condition like ASD can be a nightmare. Having to fend off other people's assumptions is hard going to. It's only too easy to behave desperately when that's exactly how your feeling.

With your DS being 6, there are ways of explaining this condition to him in ways he can understand. I would HIGHLY recommend the National Autistic Society website for gaining an understanding of just what your friend is facing, and ways to help her without becoming overwhelmed yourself.

Has she been through any courses on it herself? When my DD2 was diagnosed, I was given a place on Early Bird Plus (Early Bird course if child is diagnosed younger than school age) course which helps parents identify triggers, coping methods and calming down ideas.

It's not that the op does not want her ds to play with this boy that is the problem, I don't want my dd around my friends nt ds who is rude, nasty and aggressive to dd because of her ASD despite my friend trying to explain and educate him. So we meet when the kids are at schoo. It's because the op has come accross as harsh, unsympathetic, intolerant and ignorant, she seems not to have made an effort to educate herself and her ds about Autism, so she can help her 'friend' in a better way.

Tbh it sounds as though she is looking fora way out, tat may be better for the friend to be around beople who are more accepting, take them as they are, not have restrictions placed on the friendship. Op having a child with sn can happen to anyone. How would you like it if the tables were turned and someone who you thought was a good friend who you could rely on does not want to see you if you have your ds there. Who thought you were tiresome, and too demanding because you are in a drk place and finding it difficult to cope.

Earlybird a good suggestion (although one would hope professional involved might have offered something similar :hollow laugh: ). Not just because of what it teaches you, but because it gives you a chance to meet others in the same situation. As this thread has shown it really is essential (IMO) in the early years to have others going through the same thing in your circle of friends. Visits to friends with kids with SN are just far easier all round.

OP does not come across as harsh and unsympathetic. She comes across as struggling to deal with the difficult situations thrust upon her by the other mum.

Come on, who really thinks dropping round with no notice, uninvited and with no structure is good for the boy with ASD?

Who really thinks its on for the mum to fuck off and leave the boy with the OP?

Got to say, friendships are two way streets and maybe the OP would be better able to cope with the difficult meetings if she could see her friend sometimes without the boys.

All the talk by earlier posters "my school hours are precious" yeah? Well maybe the OPs after school hours are precious to her...

Don't be so aggressive towards someone who has come on here asking for strategies to deal with a difficult situation. As is evident by most posters with kids with ASD reactions on here, most 'friends' drop you as soon as it gets difficult. The OP has put up with a lot of not very friendly behaviour before considering reducing contact.

Whois she does. Thank goodness I have a few friends who are wonderful and take us as we are. One of my friends even Has dd occasionally and she loves going to her favourite auntie. No I would not do what the friend does but I sounds as though she is struggling to cope and sees opals somebody she can rely on. Mabey op needs to tell her what she said on here and direct her towards support, NAS, SN board on here, social services for respite etc

And cut dwn contact with the friend if she feels tat way.

I agree, whois

Read the last few sentences of her op, not very nice. Of course ds other friends are little angles they don't have a blooming disability,

Well no notice and uninvited works for some with ASD. My son loves it. And we never set up structured activities as he can't do them. I don't think that's the point really, it can work with some although isn't here.

I was just responding to the 'see her without the kids' comment. A common suggestion on these threads. I usually get one free morning about every other week during school terms only (because I make it happen, otherwise I would get none). And my parenting time on the whole isn't the relaxed easy going parenting of an NT child (i have two of those, i know) - it's a whoke different intensity. No way would I use that time with someone who didn't like my child. Especially if (as the OP has suggested) she TOLD me she didn't like my child - and dressed it up in some sort of crap about sharing dreams.

It may be that the OP can't cope with an autistic child. IME about 80% of NT parents can't. That's not a problem really, after a few years you end up sorting out friendships and having a good bunch of people around you (does help if you switch onto the problems though - sounds as if the friend is possibly taking a while to get there, although she may just be not talking about the issues). All I'm saying is that 'meet without the children because I can't cope with your child', ime doesn't work if you really want to maintain the friendship. Or at least I've lost contact with all (ex) friends who couldn't cope with ds1 being around them/their children.