My friend's ds has autism, she would like my ds to spend more time with him.

[BatwingGirl]

I find this very unfair on ds (6) as he has made other friends at his school who want to come round and play. Both boys have pretty much grown up together, seeing eachother since they were babies. They go to different schools but as her ds has become older, it's become more challenging to have a decent playdate without tantrums every 2 minutes. I've tried to see my friend more while the boys are at school, but she tries very hard to time it for after school so that the boys can be together. I didn't want to say it to her and have said I'm busy after school, weekends I've stopped going out with her and the two boys as there will always be a scene in town. She ends up leaving him with me, walking off in a temper herself. It's very stressful.

For the last few weeks she has been coming round with some excuse (to see the kitten, to see the new rug, they made biscuits) and I can't exactly say no. She asks my ds to play with her ds (7) in his room. I don't like them being out of my sight as I know her ds can get very aggressive if he doesn't get his own way. My ds who does not know about his condition ends up very frustrated and scared. I'd like to keep my friend but not force my son to have to be his friend if he doesn't want to. I know if I say it to her she will really take offense. She feels like she has no one else and other mums from the school have dumped her since his diagnoses.
I just want an easier life. When Ds's other friends are round, they are like angels compared to my friend's ds.

Good. :)

I drop EVERYONE who doesn't want to spend time with my DC's that have Autism.

Why would I want to spend what little free time I DO have with somebody that actively dislikes the main part of my life - That I am a parent, and 2 soon to be 3 of my DC's are dxd with Autism. And they DO display behaviour that doesn't follow 'societal norms'.

It is at it's worst between about 6-12, and then they often find 'coping mechanisms' to make themselves look 'normal', as much as possible.

I just find it gobsmacking to see that the poster you seemingly identify the most with is the most intolerant, unkind, discriminatory poster on the thread. And that, to me, is very telling.

While you shouldn't put your DS at risk of violence, there have been a myriad of ways in which you could make these play dates easier for your DS suggested on this thread.

You don't want this. You want someone who CLEARLY values your friendship and needs your support to accept that you don't like her child, and you are unwilling to be around what is a major part of her life.

You sound utterly delightful, OP.

I hope I don't know you in RL.

And it's funny how the majority (if not all) of my friends have DC's that also have different disabilities.

Why would I waste my time with anyone who can't accept my DC's, disabilities and all?

"But peachy if I told you genuinely from the goodness of my heart that my ds doesn't enjoy playing with your ds, (and you know this because you can see this) but we can meet up when the kids are at school and he's certainly welcome to come to my house for ds's birthday party and go swimming together on Thursdays, if our friendship meant anything to you and YOU enjoyed MY company because I make you laugh, we do wonderful things taht take your mind off stuff, we talk about our hopes and dreams and our dh, we support eachother in other ways, would you throw away OUR friendship?"

I read through this thread forming constructive ideas about your situation, OP but I gave up when I read that.

You may as well say "I like you but your son is only acceptable on certain occasions, decided by me" if you say that.

I was going to suggest that you talk to her in a neutral fashion, about having some rules for both boys, to make sure the playdate goes well but if you actually think what you just wrote above, I can't really form any understanding of your way of thinking here.

My free time is about 4 hours every 8 weeks. Therefore in order to properly maintain MY friendships, they HAVE to be conducted with my children present for the majority of the time.

While I don't believe the OP's friend is doing her DS any favours by NOT supervising play effectively, by sending them upstairs, by not distracting her DS from stunning in the OP's DS's personal space, I also believe that the OP's friend is very close to the edge emotionally - she is showing this by walking away when her DS has meltdowns.

It is obviously the sign of somebody that is struggling to cope, and is in a strange way, asking for the OP's help.

She seems close to the edge, which can happen when you have no friends that will accept your child for who they are, issues and all, and aren't prepared to make the changes needed to help their friend's child.

I can't understand how the OP can't see that her friend needs this support. While yes, I accept, it is an awful lot for ONE person to take on, surely the OP could research local support groups to help her friend, research Charities that could provide her friend with support, thus taking some of the burden off the OP.

But no. The OP is only seemingly looking for validation that it is not a nasty thing to do to give her friend an ultimatum that she either sees the OP without her DS, or she doesn't see her at all.

And I can't give her that validation - it IS a selfish, uncaring thing to do.

I have a friend whose DS's Autism is far worse than any of my DC's. But they all have no problems going round to her house because they understand what it is like. He is actually DS2's best friend.

And in school, they are each other's only friend.

Stunning = stimming. Autocorrect doesn't like it any more than the OP, obviously.

Your poor friend deserves better than people like you in her life tbh. Her friends have dumped her rather than support her and you're pretty much doing the same. Why not explain the situation to your precious dc and control and supervise the environment they play in. You're lucky to have a neurotypical dc imagine (God forbid) if anything happened to him and your friends dumped you and stopped their children playing with him. How would that make you feel

What Couthy said.

My ds has ASD and has never been invited to someones else to play/eat etc and he is 10 almost 11 :( he isn't violent, but is quite hard work when things don't go his way...he is very lucky that he doesn't realise what he is missing out on and that he has brothers and sisters who love him alot and take good care of him. He has one friend at school, however this friend wrote to ds recently saying ds had to grow up or he would be bullied in secondary school :( obviously we have applied for a special school for ds.

"She should give her son a break, maybe he neither needs or want socializing." This is not true of many people with ASD, in my experience, and is probably not the case here. As pag and others say, it is more likely that the little boy is terribly excited and this is exacerbating his behaviours. My ds has ASD, he is lucky in that his classmates are inclusive, he gets invtied to parties but even though he's been to a few he still gets so excited at the prospect that a lot of his controlling, rigid and over-anxious behaviours get worse.

I have every confidence that this situation can be sorted out in a way that is beneficial to all but it will require effort on both sides. I think you have a stark choice, OP. You can make the effort to learn about ASD, point your friend in the direction of support and think about how to plan playdates so they are more successful. or you can be the next person who lets down a family in pretty dire need. the former will be hard, but at least it won;t result in disliking yourself, which the latter would, if you are any kind of decent person anyway.

I also agree you should direct her to our SN board. She will find a lot of info and support there, both online and in RL too if she needs it. if she's local to me I'd be delighted to meet up with her and her ds.

I confess to not reading the entire thread (ican imagine the difference of opinions) but regardless of disability/autism surely this should be about friendship, manners & courtesy.
Would the OP be as quick to post if the behaviour was as a result of difference in parenting styles?

the OP has a friend who is struggling & needs support & if a true friend the OP's friendship should not be conditional on her sons behaviour or anything else.
Also my children know they are expected to welcome anyone we invite in to our house with kindness. Its just good manners.
That said if the OP is concerned that her friends child can be aggresive then the OP must be honest and share her concerns with the friend & find something that both boys can enjoy while being in sight of the parents.

Its not bloody rocket science, they are kids, one happens to have autism.

I would also add this (you can tell I have been relfecting on this thread today, as i suspect many of us have). your expectation that you can somehow maintain a friendship with this lady while excluding her child is a sign of significant immaturity on your part. You plainly have not grasped the basic truth that your friend will feel precisely the same attachment to her child as you to yours and what would you say to a friendship offered on those terms? Whatever you do vis-a-vis your friend you do need to develop a bit more maturity about relationships, I think. In the interests of your own child if no-one else's.

Can you direct her to the MN special needs board?

Lots of ASD Mums, and lots quietly meet up for a coffee from time to time in RL (subject to geography of course lol!).

Walking off and leaving her child in meltdown in public places has me worried that she may be getting close to the edge. Life for an ASD kid in local authority care cos Mum's had a breakdown just isn't cool. Can you set some boundaries and help her get some RL support please - perhaps picking up the phone to research local NAS support groups etc?

To help you understand the realities of day to day life with for an ASD child might I suggest you try reading the "curious incident of the dog in the night-time". It's a mystery written by a 15 year old lad with ASD. I've found it far more helpful for family and friends to "get their heads round" my son's ASD than any other publication. It's led to increased understanding all round.

7 is still pretty young to be playing unsupervised. My living room is divided into two sections using my big settee as a room divider. This means the kids play "independently" at one end, while us Mums chat at the other. It basically makes play dates for my ASD lad possible as we are able to supervise in a relaxed way without hovering constantly iykwim.

Until recently I also kept activities very structured (table footie, simple board games, crafts etc)- this reduced my ASD lad's stress levels and kept everyone happy. It's harder work than with an NT child, but doesn't have to leave you feeling resentful and drained iyswim. Moving upstairs to play out of sight & mind is something I'll only attempt with specific kids, not generally iykwim. None of my son's friends seem to object to doing similar when he goes to their houses - after all we all want an easy life & a chance to chat & relax.

And I also think wassup understands it all too well.

you sound a selfish individual who wants a friend but can't and won't deal with what the friend has to put up with, which in my book does not make a friend at all.

And yes I have experience of being you.

"But peachy if I told you genuinely from the goodness of my heart that my ds doesn't enjoy playing with your ds, (and you know this because you can see this) but we can meet up when the kids are at school and he's certainly welcome to come to my house for ds's birthday party and go swimming together on Thursdays, if our friendship meant anything to you and YOU enjoyed MY company because I make you laugh, we do wonderful things taht take your mind off stuff, we talk about our hopes and dreams and our dh, we support eachother in other ways, would you throw away OUR friendship?"

Yep, that was a particularly charming post. Jeez.

You know if my child told me that he doesn't want to play with someone because he is disabled/weird/different I'd have a little chat about tolerance, diversity and how we have to be kind to those who are different.

DS2 (6) has a brother with severe autism, he is hard work and his 'play' often involves wrestling and smashing DS2's Lego constructions to smithereens. DS2 doesn't freak out about it (tolerance, understanding, etc) and funny enough he is good pals with another autistic boy in his class. 6 is a good age to start.

Having said that, I don't think the OPs friend is helping, but I have a lot more sympathy for her than this 'friend' of hers.

I have two friends with sons who are on the autism spectrum. One is 13, and does not like social situations. He has asbergers and dyspraxia (these are the diagnosis his mum has mentioned). He is perfectly happy when nobody is trying to put him into social situations. My other friend has a 10 year old boy. He sounds a lot more like your friends son.

The 10 year old is the same age as my oldest son. Because autism affects two boys my son is in regular contact with, and he is a mature 10 year old, I have spoken to him about autism. I could not do the same with my 6 year old. I posted about it here actually some time ago, asking for advice how to talk to him, and got lots of useful advice and links to show him. Because of this, he no longer gets upset by the behaviour of his two friends.

Having said that, the 10 year old, lets call him Peter, has been "difficult" since he was a baby, and he and my son does not get on very well. The diagnosis is new, and my friend is happy to know what is going on, and she is learning how to best handle his more challenging behaviours. His mum is not brushing over his behaviour, she is not pretending he is good as gold. She is not trying to force her son to play together with other children, but encourage doing something together. Like put on a movie and have pizza. Meet up at the skate park. There is always a purpose to the things we do, and the boys are not required to play together, or interact, other than in the framework of the activity we are doing. We often go out of towns for walks together. So it is me and her, her two sons and my two sons. Two pairs of boys of similar ages. We explore hedge rows, berries, ponds, rivers, have picnic, and in general enjoy ourselves together.

If my son and Peter are left alone to play together in the play room, well, this does not work. Peter will start wrestling my son, tickle him, snatch toys away, hog toys, refuse to share, call my son names, etc. Tease my son that he has something interesting that he is not showing my son, etc.

I think it works well because my friend is very in tune with her son, and together we manage to have a great time with all our boys because we select activities that we do and that all children can take part in.

It is a shame that your friend, OP, has given up on the Tennis and swimming, because these would be perfect situations where her son can be social with other children without the scope for much problems in interacting.

Why dont you suggest you get back to doing this? Or suggest country walks? Then you can chat while the boys run and explore?

This thread has made me cry. As a mum of 1 child with ASD and another going through the diagnosis process, it is depressing to read the views of some. Its as if it is okay to pay 'lip service' to encouraging an inclusive society,education etc., just as long as none of 'our' children get too close to your perfect little darlings. Batwing, you have no idea how isolating it is to have children with autism. Your friend probably feels you are her only existing friend, and yet here you are trying to exclude her son (and no doubt the most important person her life) from your life.

I wonder have you ever stopped to consider the pain she constantly faces, observing your child move on easily and happily in life, while hers is nothing but struggling and sadness. It will be a constant and hurtful reminder, yet she still wants to be your friend. I also hope you never have a child with any SN and find out how it actually feels.

Oh by the way, I think you are AIBU! However, I do agree your friend should take some steps to make it easier for all of you, like planning more structured activities, helping you to explain to your child about her DS's autism.

drowinginlaundry!!!! Haven't seen you on mumsnet for years!!!

Hm would help if I could spell drowning

I agree with Quint. A lot of the issues in this situation are about the friend, they're not to do with her DS. My nephew has ASD and I know it can be a bit difficult for my DS to deal with at times but we talk about it, it's not unmentionable, it's part of who my nephew is.

There are ways of making life easier for a child with ASD to socialise with other children and ways of making it easier for other children to socialise with them. That's patently not happening here.

Op, as I said before, please get your friend to come to the SN boards.
She can come round to my house. ANY DAY.
It is HER who deserves our love, care and support.

I'm reading this thread. I can't really advise anything except usually honesty is best - and for her as well. Get her to talk about how she's feeling; why she 'dumps' her DS on you and what she's seeking from you and your DS's friendship. Maybe when you understand where she's coming from you can find a compromise.

Thing is Quint, your friend of the 10 year old sounds as though she is coping really well, OPs friend doesn't.

It can take a lot of time to get to a point like that and I think you being a good and understanding friend probably helps loads.

This is a difficult read on the whole.

'But peachy if I told you genuinely from the goodness of my heart that my ds doesn't enjoy playing with your ds, (and you know this because you can see this) but we can meet up when the kids are at school and he's certainly welcome to come to my house for ds's birthday party and go swimming together on Thursdays, if our friendship meant anything to you and YOU enjoyed MY company because I make you laugh, we do wonderful things taht take your mind off stuff, we talk about our hopes and dreams and our dh, we support eachother in other ways, would you throw away OUR friendship'

OP - you should ashamed of yourself if you would ever actually dare say that to anyone! You the the very essence of what is known as a 'fair weather friend' aren't you? And how odd that you haven't the slightest self awareness of your own behaviour.