My friend's ds has autism, she would like my ds to spend more time with him.

[BatwingGirl]

I find this very unfair on ds (6) as he has made other friends at his school who want to come round and play. Both boys have pretty much grown up together, seeing eachother since they were babies. They go to different schools but as her ds has become older, it's become more challenging to have a decent playdate without tantrums every 2 minutes. I've tried to see my friend more while the boys are at school, but she tries very hard to time it for after school so that the boys can be together. I didn't want to say it to her and have said I'm busy after school, weekends I've stopped going out with her and the two boys as there will always be a scene in town. She ends up leaving him with me, walking off in a temper herself. It's very stressful.

For the last few weeks she has been coming round with some excuse (to see the kitten, to see the new rug, they made biscuits) and I can't exactly say no. She asks my ds to play with her ds (7) in his room. I don't like them being out of my sight as I know her ds can get very aggressive if he doesn't get his own way. My ds who does not know about his condition ends up very frustrated and scared. I'd like to keep my friend but not force my son to have to be his friend if he doesn't want to. I know if I say it to her she will really take offense. She feels like she has no one else and other mums from the school have dumped her since his diagnoses.
I just want an easier life. When Ds's other friends are round, they are like angels compared to my friend's ds.

It can feel very frustrating and invasive when people repeatedly turn up unannounced without regard for your plans and that can make even the most understanding person lose patience. Obviously your friend isn't doing it to annoy you, it sounds like she is feeling desperate, isolated and probably quite fearful for her son. She needs practical help from people who know what she's going through, understand autism and can help her with strategies to deal with her sons behaviour and other peoples reactions to it. I'd look for local support groups that could be of use to her.

You could explain to your son that your friends son doesn't understand normal social rules and that causes him to act out. If you were both open with him, he probably wouldn't be so afraid or upset by his behaviour because he would know that their was no meaness or bad intent. You need to talk to your friend about that.

Don't abandon her because she's in a terrible situation, she needs you a bit too much at the moment because she has nobody else to rely on. Getting her outside support will solve that.

Revulsion is such a strong word, and feelings coming anywhere close to that against a child are something I hadn't even considered. Are people really like that?

If that is what you (collective you) have to deal with, then I am really sorry to hear it, and I can understand some of the strong reactions to the OP. There is a big difference between feeling ambivalent towards a child and even having slightly less patience with them, and actually resenting a child's presence.

Can I balance my own post by sharing how wonderful DD2's school is?

Not only did they make DD1 so very welcome when we were considering them for her education, despite it being so very unsuitable in hindsight, but every time I have to take her there to drop off DD2 (if she's off school but DD2 is in school) the school staff treat her like royalty.

Today, a case in point. DD1 was too exhausted for school. So she came on the school run with me to drop DD2 off.

Headteacher at the gate: Wonderful greeting, eye contact, speaking at a pace DD1 could keep up with but not patronising 'thick speech'. Listened attentively to DD1, allowing her to speak and not finishing her sentence for her when she fumbled.

DD2's old Reception teacher: Stopped talking to parents as they left so that she could come and greet DD1. Genuine warmth and interest, asking DD1 why she wasn't at school, what she'd been up to, and how she was.

DD2's current class teacher: First time of meeting, showed interest, asked her name, told her she'd heard lots about her.

This afternoon, after school, DD2's Dance Kids leader saw that DD1 was trying to copy moves from the spectator area (we were all invited to watch the last 15 minutes of the session tonight, and I had no choice but to take her with me) and she invited DD1 and DD3 to come and join in. DD1 did her very best to join in and did some beautiful listening for 10 minutes. She was included.

If these people, who have probably had 100 bits of information thrust at them at 8.45 on an Autumn morning, can stop and make a little girl's day, how is it that all these parents are 'too busy' 'too tired' or their children are 'too precious' to extend a bit of warmth and empathy?

Nobody expects their child to be the one who develops differently. Nobody expects to be someone in need of support. Why is it that people can't just think what it's like to be that person?

If these people, who have probably had 100 bits of information thrust at them at 8.45 on an Autumn morning, can stop and make a little girl's day, how is it that all these parents are 'too busy' 'too tired' or their children are 'too precious' to extend a bit of warmth and empathy?

I don't think being attentive as a teacher and finding the demands of a friend exhausting are comparable. The OP is at least trying, and not giving up.

Yes outraged they are. Even some good friends that I had known for years couldn't really cope with being near him, they'd sort of freeze if he came near - give a rabbit in the headlights look. And he's not aggressive, hits himself, but hasn't ever hit another child.

Other friends laugh as he sits on their lap (he's a teenager now) or shoves his chin into them. Some people adore him and go on about how beautiful he is.

He tends to provoke strong reactions!

Note the use of present and past tense in this reply (not done on purpose!) I think that says it all really. :)

Why do people say 'SN parents' with the inference that we are bitter because we have a child with SN? It really annoys me - many of us have NT children too. Most of us don't like our child to be defined by their disability and here are some of you even defining their parents by it!

Saintly

He sounds lovely to me! I suppose that as he does provoke strong reactions, then if your reaction is like that of your friends now, then you find it hard to understand that anyone could feel so differently in the other direction.

I think that's where I'm at.

Thank you for making me think.

perceptionreality so agree. I have one of each.
yet get classed as an sn parent

my ds is 10
he uses dd as his shit o meter.
if a friend/girlfriend can't accept her....
they are history.
I do the same, tbh I could not be bothered with a pretend friend who only wanted to see me when dd was not around, she is a massive part of my life, so can not be sidelined, anymore than an NT child can.
I really hope the "friend" of the op finds solace in the SN world.where both she and her son will be accepted and flapping will not be seen as bullying.

(typo ds is 20)

Have only got one child, who has SN, but am still not an 'SN parent', whatever that is.

Except I have a special need of wine at the end of the day

wow, 13 pages!

DS2 has 2 friends with autism. With one, playdates are hard work as the child gets violent at random (still not sure what provokes him) and hurts DS quite badly (thrown down stairs, bitten his face, attacked him with a shovel, quite heavy stuff really). I can do play dates with the mum, as she is very aware we need to supervise non-stop, and also removes him when it starts getting out of hand. Still, these playdates are nerve wrecking!

If he comes with his dad however, it is a nightmare, as the dad likes to pretend everything is "fine" and sits down with a drink, whilst I run around trying to avoid anyone getting hurt.

The other child is not violent, so there is no issue. He is "different" but aren't we all in a way?

To me, there is an issue when a child is violent, and I understand OP or anyone who finds this difficult to deal with. And having to face questions from your own DC asking "Why do have to play with this boy if he hurts me I am scared of him". It is hard to then make him, IMO.

It all boils down to how aggressive behaviour is managed by parents.

If there is no aggression, cannot see how having autism or any SN are an issue with other parents TBH, but nobody wants their child to get hurt.

I agree chandon, the aggression is what makes the OP fear for her son.

It's not the DX that's unacceptable, it's the aggression.

My DD chooses her own friends, as I do mine. My DD was being monopolised by a child with aspergers who was obsessed with her and I had to call it with the teachers, as my DD was being excluded from playing with anyone else in her class as she was "X's friend". That was the straw that broke the camel's back here, and I had a word with the school. They did a lot of intensive workshops on bullying with the class to ensure there was good mixing, and swapped my Dd for another girl at this autistic girls table, so she had to talk to other children, and my DD got a break.

I don't think my DD has deliberately decided not to be BFF with autistic children: she just prefers kids she can play with without being monopolised or scared!

I don't make friends for my DD, or push her in any direction - she mixes well, is a kindly soul, and knows what she likes. I don't think there's anything sad about that.

Good for your DD only preferring to play with NT kids with no social difficulties, how kindly and lovely...

Haven't read the whole thread but the first post made me cry on behalf of the friend and her little lad. Please have compassion and maintain this friendship. How devastating for the mum that she is losing friendships.

My mum used to make me play with certain kids who had to deal with challenges in their lives when I was younger. I often didn't want to at the time and I'm ashamed of that now. Looking back I wish she'd explained exactly why they were coming to play but, most importantly, I wish she'd found the time to find something we both really enjoyed and let us do them without close supervision (playing on the beach? Playing video games? The latter of which I would NEVER ordinarily have been allowed to do!). That would have got me a lot more excited about the prospect and I'd have forgotten that I'd not originally wanted to play with whoever.

I don't have any contact with 6 year olds but surely that's not too young to explain that little guy's brain works a bit differently and sometimes he gets frustrated or whatever? Maybe friend can help you with explanation.

So I think it might work if you set up a regular play date and find something (run round park with balls?) both are going to really enjoy which will distract your son and hopefully mean less chance of tantrums.

I'm hijacking this thread, I apologise, but could I ask the mums with DC that have SN, just a quick question.

There are 2 children with SN in DDs class. When she asked about them I explained in very generic details that they may act a little differently, they may need some extra attention, they may have little quirks that seem strange to her (the one lad went through a phase of only eating round things - explained it to DD in a 'you don't like tomatoes, he doesn't like square sandwiches)

DD has no issues with either of the children, happily plays with them, but the one has started hand flapping which I think is quite normal? I've said to her that it is because he is excited (DD was a little scared) so DD says she 'told him to calm down, but he didn't)

DD always wants things explained to her - she is very much a deep thinker. I'm not sure what is the right way to go about this.

I have said that 'His brain doesn't work like yours, you saying calm down doesn't work because he doesn't understand what that means'

Ive been thinking about it - and I've convinced myself that was the wrong thing to say. Could anyone advise me of the best way to put it. I don't do the school run so I don't see the parents, otherwise I would just ask them.

Can you help. And please, my apologies if I have offended anyone, I don't mean to, I just have no experience.

Venus not all autistic children are lik that. My dd does not and she is a happy little girl who sometimes loves the company of other children. When other chi,dren come to play she will jump up and down making happy noises and flapping her hands. If she is fed up of playing she will take herself away and leave the child on their own. Don't let this one child Venus form your impression of all sn children

Venus the school handled it well it's not good to have any child nt or sn behaving like that toward your child, I would have done the same as you. The child needs to be taught about social behaviour and how to behave or not around other children as autistic children find it difficult to form relationships with others

Venus, has your dd really decided that she's not going to be friends with all autistic children, or has she decided to cool off her friendship with this one child who has autism?

I think you need to be careful of encouraging her that she doesn't have to be friends with anyone with autism. People are all different, including those with ASD. They don't all behave the way this girl did, and in the future your dd may well like someone she meets that is on the spectrum somewhere.

LtEve, I don't think there is one right answer to your question. It sounds like you are sending the right message by explaining that this one child is different so she needs to try and be understanding. But it's impossible to explain the needs of every child with SN, because they will all be different. I prefer to explain what an individual finds difficult rather than what someone with SN or ASD finds difficult. I don't think you said the wrong thing.

There is another boy in my ds's class who also has AS. Same diagnosis, but the two boys couldn't be more different. They both have social difficulties, but even those are very different.

Dallas - what you said sounds fine. My younger two were told before they could talk that ds1 didn't always understand (in his case it was easier in a way as he is very aware that he is severely autistic - children who are higher functioning may not have had this talked about in front of them). So at age 2 ds3 could be found hands on hips telling granny to lay off if she dared to tell ds1 off

For hand flapping I would just say 'it's just his way of showing that he's excited and his body does it automatically, like hiccuping'. I'd steer clear of different brains - not because I think it's a bad explanation but because i'd be worried your dd might repeat it back to the child and they may not know anything about their condition.

I have a handy cop out where I say 'they find it hard to understand like ds1' so do use people you know as examples as well.

Yes Dallas , I agree with saintly.
I think what you said was fine.

When I used to explain to DD and her friends about her big brother I used to say...
'you know how we all find things difficult? Paggirl, you find your selling hard and you Georgia find forward rolls really tricky and I am really rubbish at parking. Well Pagboy finds lots of things really tricky. He finds it hard to be quiet and sometimes he gets flappy and he can't help it even though he might want to. But he is just doing his best, like all of us. And he is great at computers and racing isn't he?'

Yes it's good that te teacher put the girl with other children so she could form other relations as its not good for the girl and op dd for her to be obsessed with her. The girl has to earn about good and bad relationships to help her in later life

Meant Venus dd