My friend's ds has autism, she would like my ds to spend more time with him.

[BatwingGirl]

I find this very unfair on ds (6) as he has made other friends at his school who want to come round and play. Both boys have pretty much grown up together, seeing eachother since they were babies. They go to different schools but as her ds has become older, it's become more challenging to have a decent playdate without tantrums every 2 minutes. I've tried to see my friend more while the boys are at school, but she tries very hard to time it for after school so that the boys can be together. I didn't want to say it to her and have said I'm busy after school, weekends I've stopped going out with her and the two boys as there will always be a scene in town. She ends up leaving him with me, walking off in a temper herself. It's very stressful.

For the last few weeks she has been coming round with some excuse (to see the kitten, to see the new rug, they made biscuits) and I can't exactly say no. She asks my ds to play with her ds (7) in his room. I don't like them being out of my sight as I know her ds can get very aggressive if he doesn't get his own way. My ds who does not know about his condition ends up very frustrated and scared. I'd like to keep my friend but not force my son to have to be his friend if he doesn't want to. I know if I say it to her she will really take offense. She feels like she has no one else and other mums from the school have dumped her since his diagnoses.
I just want an easier life. When Ds's other friends are round, they are like angels compared to my friend's ds.

OP..do your "friend" a favor and cut her out of your life.

She needs the support from someone genuine and from someone who will understand. It will be hard for her at first but learning where she stands with you now is a damn sight better than learning that you, her friend and trusted friend at that, is a two faced, lying cow who's kid can't stand her son further down the line hurts a lot more.

Yes this is a harsh post, but do you know what, I dont care. You do seem to want a way out of the friendship guilt free. Just do it quick.

Bollocks sounds quite harsh but she s right, she needs a genuine friend who really cares about her and her ds, not a fair weather half hearted one, only for the good and not the bad. Idpf I were that friend I would not want someone like te op as a friend and ould feel really hurt and user that someo I had considered to be a good friend flt that way about us

Blimy,typing on I pad is hard

I didn't read it as if the OP wants out of the friendship at all. I read it as she is struggling with the play date side of the friendship, and would rather the friendship was about her and her friend rather than the friends need to find a child for her own to play with.

She said she has tried to spend time with her friend while the children are at school, and she says she would like to keep her friend without forcing a friendship between the children when her own son is encouraged to play alone with a child who he doesn't want to be friends with.

Honestly, I think some people only read the bits of a post that they want to and ignore the rest.

I think Batwing probably does want out, not least because she has glossed over several suggestions made on here.

I am pretty depressed about the name calling and demonising though. I can't see it as either fair or helpful.

She has been in her friends life for some time and has, by all accounts, been supportive. Yes it is massively disappointing that her tone now suggests she just wants out. But calling her names is hardly going to help.
Perhaps if she had and her friend had more, erlier support they would have been able to help the boys manage their relationship. But she has come on here after her desire to help has effectively run out.
But I doubt anyone in a similar situation would seek advice on here in future.

A bit grim tbh.

No, no..I wasnt calling the op a two faced lying cow, that's just an example to get the point across. To be honest I feel sick about posting that as I didn't mean to, it was written out but pressed the post button instead of the preview.

Anyway, I'm not calling the op a cow as I've said already, but if she is going to drop her friend then she need to do it now. Loosing friends is hard enough, we've all been there but with an SN child behind behind the reason, intentionally or not, it's even harder and hurts more as you valued that friendship more because of the understanding and support you thought you had.

And lots of us with kids both with SN and with no SN just watch the gap. Miserably.

Agreed Pag. DS has SN, DD doesnt and we've all been affected by it. It is depressing.

Agree Pag. Ds1(8) AS. Ds2(4) NT.
So, I like to THINK that gives me a bit of perspective.

"OP had already decided to stop any meaningful contact with her friend and move away into less close friend territory, where coffee during school hours is ok but family contact is not."

To be honest, I dont find that surprising, because:

A) Friend does not want to talk about Autism, and is not prepared to hear/speak anything negative/honest about her sons issues.

B) Friend is expecting OPs young child to show empathy and understanding for a condition they are not allowed to speak about.

C) Friend is expecting OPs young child to play with her son out of view and with no supervision, despite putting ops son at risk of violence.

D) Friend turns a blind eye to her child flapping his hands into OP son, and offers no explanation, and does not deal with the situation.

E) Friend leave the OP to deal with her sons meltdowns, in addition to handling her own child, when they are out and about.

F) Friend is imposing herself and her son on OP on a regular basis, through dropping in unannounced etc.

And all this because Friend wants her son to be treated as a normal child, and wont address the issue in a way that would invite empathy and understanding.

Honestly? Should the OP just let this continue? Where is her duty? To her son? Or her friends son?

Exactly what is the OP to do?

As far as I can see, as long as the friend is not willing to talk about it, there is nothing else she can do.

Aside from:

1. Insisting they talk about it.
2. Suggesting friend seeks help regards to how to handle her son, ie find support groups or join the SN bord.
3. Suggest activities such as swimming, tennis, walking.
4. Tell her friend explicitly that they need to talk about Autism in a way that ops son can understand so that he knows what is going on.
5. Tell her friend that playdates are fine as long as any playing is supervised
6. Tell her friend that she must never abandon her with her son when he has a meltdown

I am sure there are other suggestions, feel free to add...

I would not walk away from a friendship because of this.

(Actually, since last night I just remembered that my younger son also had a friend with Autism in his class, and his mum was equally open about it. I think Openness is key)

Outraged it is pretty obvious she wants out, a genuine friend would take the oerson as a package not just the good bits. The friend needs someone more than just a art time friend

I am pretty open and frank to friends and eople about dd autism and of corse I like it when they talk to their ds about it. As a result of my friends talking to their ds about dd Autism they are so understanding and god with her

Or maybe the Friend is simply asking for more than the OP can give, within the limitations and terms the Friend has laid down?

I think you are being unfair Piglet.

I too have one child with SN and one without, I don't feel the need to include my child in every social situation I have. Yes, friends should accept each other as a package, but how far do you take that? OP has an obligation to consider her own sons needs too. And it is pretty common for people to not like others just turning up at their house and expecting to play.

OP wants her friendship not to revolve around her friends sons needs (from what I can tell, obviously I cant speak for her) There is nothing wrong with that. She also doesn't want her own child to be put in a situation where he is unhappy. Again, that's fine, any parent would want their child to be supervised if they were at risk of aggressive behaviour. None of that means she doesn't want to be involved in her fends life, or that she's only a fair weather friend. It just means that her own son and her own stress levels have to come first to her. Quint has it spot on.

I am watching this with interest as i have a sort of similar situation and I am watching all the excellent advice given here.

Fair enough outraged, I don't entirely agree with the friends behaviour either, leaving her ds with op when he has a meltdown, turning up unexpectly at regular intervals at op home, and not wanting to be open to people about her ds dx. But really it does seem from the gist of the op that she does want out. If not she does have to establish firm boundaries and rules to make it wrk. Op really needs to encourage her friend to seek support

The general feel I get from Mumsnet is that it's very kind, sharing, effort-making and the values to aspire are about understanding, tolerance and so on. I think why this thread has come a cropper is - that's come slap in the face of a mother's concern for her own child. It's central to that question, at what point do we stop being altriustic and simply look to our own. Drawing a line and saying thus far, no further - it can feel regressive, conservative, unkind even - but it's a basic human instinct. That's why I think it's all gone wrong here.

I think i agree with notquint,

Pretend the ops friend had a child that her child just didnt like - would it be acceptable then to only see her friend without the children?

What if you have had a friend for a long tume, they have a child (you dont) and you dont wish to spend time with the child - surely you can still like your friend very much and still see them.

I think that what has been missed by a number of posters is the unconditional love thing - of course you think your own children ate wonderful and even if you dint they are yours and you love them.

But not all your friends will like your kids - sn or not - it doesnt mean thy dont lke you. Sound like ops friend needs a friend very much - why does it have to be so all or nothing?

Whats wrong with seeing her for coffee wihoutthe kids if this is stressful for everyone?

Im not going to slag off the OP, her feelings are her own and she is entitled to them.

However I really do think that from her initial posts, her dilemma is not about how to make this situation better/how to cope with it, but is about how to withdraw from the friendship without too much guilt on her part.

I think she wanted validation that it is ok to walk as she has tried for some time and can do no more.

There has been some good advice on here from parents of children with SNs, there has been a fair bit of info on why this little boy behaves the way he does and why perhaps his Mum is struggling with particular things.

I think it is also fair that we remember we have only the OPs take on things and that maybe her friend would present some things of the things mentioned differently!

I don't think many friendships do survive an obvious active dislike of someone's child. There's a difference between meeting a friend for coffee, chatting about the absent kids knowing that they like him or her, and joining in fondly, and meeting the same friend and chatting about the kids knowing that they dislike your child and don't want him or her near theirs.

I find that people either love ds1, find him funny or interesting - even if they sometimes find his behaviour annoying, or they really really can't cope with him at all and sort of shudder or panic if he comes near them and shout 'what's he doing what's he doing what's he doing' (er looking at you?). It's probably some sort of inbuilt mother's instinct but I find myself then shuddering at them then. I much prefer spending time with the first bunch - they laugh when I tell him what he's been up to.

It's interesting reading everyone's different take on this situation. I don't think that we acknowledge enough that adult friendships, as well as marriages, can be hard work. Well, I think people do on here, but not in real life.

When my ds (who has AS) was younger, I had one friend that found him difficult. She has dc too and actually understands a lot about the autistic spectrum, but for some reason, I always knew she didn't feel particularly warm towards him. While I felt it, it never affected our friendship. I didn't particularly like one of her dc either. I don't think you have to enjoy spending time with someone's child to be friends with them. I don't like one friend's husband, but I'm still friends with her, why is it so different for children?

It can be enough to able to be polite, considerate, respectful, kind and understanding of a friends feelings.

I think maybe the reaction to kids with AS is different outraged. The reaction to children with SLD's can border on revulsion (actually not border - it comes across as revulsion). That does affect how I feel about someone.

As I said my friend's who like ds1 sometimes find his behaviour difficult or irritating (as do I) that's very different from shuddering when he touches them.