My friend's ds has autism, she would like my ds to spend more time with him.

[BatwingGirl]

I find this very unfair on ds (6) as he has made other friends at his school who want to come round and play. Both boys have pretty much grown up together, seeing eachother since they were babies. They go to different schools but as her ds has become older, it's become more challenging to have a decent playdate without tantrums every 2 minutes. I've tried to see my friend more while the boys are at school, but she tries very hard to time it for after school so that the boys can be together. I didn't want to say it to her and have said I'm busy after school, weekends I've stopped going out with her and the two boys as there will always be a scene in town. She ends up leaving him with me, walking off in a temper herself. It's very stressful.

For the last few weeks she has been coming round with some excuse (to see the kitten, to see the new rug, they made biscuits) and I can't exactly say no. She asks my ds to play with her ds (7) in his room. I don't like them being out of my sight as I know her ds can get very aggressive if he doesn't get his own way. My ds who does not know about his condition ends up very frustrated and scared. I'd like to keep my friend but not force my son to have to be his friend if he doesn't want to. I know if I say it to her she will really take offense. She feels like she has no one else and other mums from the school have dumped her since his diagnoses.
I just want an easier life. When Ds's other friends are round, they are like angels compared to my friend's ds.

I agree zzzz, she is already trying to distance herself away from it, Mabey it's better if she does call a day on the friendship. I don't think some of the things that the friend is doing is acceptable e.g dropping in unannounced and bolting when the ds has a meltdown. We are not criticising her because of that and that she does not want her son to play ith someone who makes him scared, he shouldn't have to. There are ways round telling ds about friends son disability without using the Autism word. But I don't like the negative way in which the op uses towards the boy, big, bullying autistic kid vs NT little angles. Not very nice at all, how can her ds be expected to be understanding when his mum is negative towards the boy

Seems to me that the friend is not helping here by not having a frank discussion with the OP about her expectations too? If the playdates are not like others then surely it's down to both sides to acknowledge this and find ways of making it work?

saintlyjimjams Tue 16-Oct-12 15:27:40
"But peachy if I told you genuinely from the goodness of my heart that my ds doesn't enjoy playing with your ds, (and you know this because you can see this) but we can meet up when the kids are at school and he's certainly welcome to come to my house for ds's birthday party and go swimming together on Thursdays, if our friendship meant anything to you and YOU enjoyed MY company because I make you laugh, we do wonderful things taht take your mind off stuff, we talk about our hopes and dreams and our dh, we support eachother in other ways, would you throw away OUR friendship?"

Not much experience of autism, but as the mother of a child with a chronic condition/MH problems I just wouldn't feel there was there to sustain a friendship if it had to be at the exclusion of something that (through no choice of mine) dominates my life: of necessity, all my dreams and hopes have to be filtered through that one thing. It would be like saying to my dd: "I'll be your best friend but you have to pretend to be able to walk because I can't cope with a disabled friend- surely you aren't going to throw away Our Friendship?" In fact, dd did have friends with pretty much that attitude...

Personally, if I had been the OP, I would have ignored any instructions from the other mum and explained openly to my ds about the other child's diagnosis, just asked him not to discuss it with them or anybody else. It is our job as parents to help our children to make sense of the world and SN is something they are going to come up against; far kinder imho to help them see it as something normal and possible to deal with than as something so scary they just have to keep away.

I disagree.

I DON'T think the OP should walk away.

She may not be perfect (who is?), but by god if she drops out of this friend's life too, the friend is going to have an even tougher time. I was a crap parent at first to my autistic son, and some friends were less than wonderful too. It was a bit of an eye opener actually to find how not-nice we could be under pressure -- but we and they got better at it!

OP already has this little boy to give her friend a break and has said she's very fond of him. That's pretty good. It's a whole heap better than nothing.

The main hurdle surely is that he pokes and hits her own boy, which is not going to endear him to the child. Anyone more knowledgeable than me know how best to stop that? OP's boy is more likely to be tolerant, make friends and respect differences once he isn't being hurt.

sorry, just realised I copied too much there, and made saintlyjimjams responsible for this somewhat one-sided take on friendship...

[That was disagreeing with the suggestions that the friend should walk away, by the way. Am slow typist.]

ha ha - I was just about to say er cory I didn't say that

The main hurdle surely is that he pokes and hits her own boy, which is not going to endear him to the child. Anyone more knowledgeable than me know how best to stop that? OP's boy is more likely to be tolerant, make friends and respect differences once he isn't being hurt.

You can't make it stop, you have to supervise and separate when necessary. Ideally the friend would be supervising. Years ago when ds2 and ds3 were small I had one friend in particular who didn't really supervise her child with SN all that well, so I had to keep a close eye (while watching ds1 as well). I used to march my children off when it became too much and find something to occupy them. It is HARD work meeting up with friends with kids with SN, or at least it can be. This is why (imo) so many can't cope with it, they're not used to it, or have gone past the stage of needing so much supervision. If you can't do it, it won't work.

My best friend with only NT kids always gives ds1 a pile of washing to sort out, then gets him to put on her dryer.

Oh and although I say ideally the friend would be supervising, even with that you will still get issues, a 'coping' friend sees those as part of the bigger picture and doesn't make you feel bad about them.

It can be hard, there's no particularly easy solution. Even if you do everything right things will still go wrong.

I don't want my son with Aspergers to grow up thinking that people will make allowances for him wherever he goes throughout his whole life. It's not going to happen, so he needs to understand that if he wants to get along in life, there are something's that he is going to have to conform to even if he doesn't understand the reasons why

Great if he is high functioning enough to be able to do that! not all are, so yes society should make more of an effort.

This is a sad post. OP ask yourself if you want to continue this friendship or not. If you do, then you need to set some boundaries, that's ok in any friendship. If not, then walk away but it might not feel so great. Perhaps you could go for a coffee with your friend and talk things over. Maybe it would be nice go out for a coffee alone from time to time and let her offload. When the kids are there, maybe focus on them and supervise so they get something out of it on both sides. Your son is perfectly entitled to have his own friends and social life as he grows up, no problem. Maybe explain to him that your friends son struggles with some things and how much he can help him by setting an example when he does come round - and watch them. I am lucky that I have a friend with 2 SN children and she has given me so much practical information. I also have a friend who is going similar to me, younger child with possible SN, so when we go to each others houses we make allowances for their quirks! My oldest child is 8, he has had a lot of experience with SN, as there is a child in his class who he adores and life is more restricted for him sometimes with his younger sibling but we manage that, he has his own interests and friends but he also understands that sometimes he has to make allowances and even that life is a bit unfair at times. I am really proud of him. You could use this as a learning opportunity for your son, handled correctly. Or you could think what the heck, I'll go join the mums who have dumped her. But don't expect them to be there if life bites you on the bum, which I genuinely hope it doesn't.

How about explaining to your son, OP, in more general terms about some disabilities and differences? You could explain some of the behaviours (amongst others, for example how some children are slower and need more help to walk and talk) without mentioning this boy.

If your son twigs and says 'X is like that', you can be noncommittal, 'Mmm, he is a bit, maybe he finds some of that harder to learn too; but he's ever so good at [...]. And you're much better at football/Cluedo/farting noises than I am. Aren't people different?'

Sounds good to me Lancelottie

Ds3 has a child he sees who I suspect may have an undxed spectrummy something. When he gets hit/kicked by him I ask what happened and then say something like 'hmm it sounds as if X has difficulty understanding that it was time to stop playing' (this child does seem to have a lot of issues around transitions) or whatever else would make sense. DS3 seems to accept/understand that. I've avoided saying he has a dx (I don't know whether he does, I don't think so), but also made it not his fault. Anyway as far as I can tell I've also told the truth - whether he ever ends up with dx or is just a bit slower to develop self control.

on reading about half the thread this is what i wrote:
having been that mum, I wish I had, had a friend who would have taken over when I was at my wits end. I have walked away and left my dd in the middle of the pavement before because she refused to walk.
I am sure it is easier for you to have play dates with children that don't have disabilities and with mums that are not struggling to cope as their lives crash down around them. to be honest with you that makes you sound like not a very good friend, which I am sure isn't the case, you friend is suffering and struggling and you are thinking instead of how can I help, god this is really a burden. I think she needs to find better friends but also better coping mechanisms for her son. you are sensing a desperation in her well that is quite likely because she feels you trying to pull away. you as you said are her only friend left, what will she have once you dump her because you find her son and they way she deals with his problems inconvenient. she will have no outlet for herself and none for her son.
you cant force yourself or your son to be friends with someone so if you are bowing out have the decency to do it properly don't just drop her to leave her wondering tell her why it is. like you say you think you are entitled to an easier life, I am sure she will understand that, as she would no doubt greatly want one herself.
then I reading the rest of the thread, bat your friend isn't helping herself by ignoring her sons negative behaviour, hitting and things should not be tolerated regardless of his condition, too many parents of children with autism use it as an excuse to not discipline them, yes it causes melt downs, yes it makes life harder in the short term but the do learn that biting hitting and in general inappropriate behaviour is not something to be tolerated. I firmly believe that as with any behaviour autistic children of certain levels can learn them. I am sure there are people that disagree with me but i did not see why my dd with autism should be allowed to get away with things that my other children would not be allowed to. she may not understand that something is wrong but she will if it is explained to her enough like with any child it is just a harder and longer process with autistic children. if i was on a play date and my dd did something to someone elses child I instantly dealt with it, because it is not ok for children to be hitting other children. however op there are children that do this and have no reason other than they are badly behaved and this is another thing your friend will have to put up with people judging her in the street for the way her child behaves. people use to make comments as they walked past as dd would have a meltdown telling me I needed super nanny because autistic children don't look like they have anything wrong with them people feel free to judge.
I do feel like you are in a hard position but ultimately I think you need to stand up a bit for yourself be a bit more honest with your friend. tell her it is not ok for her son to hit your son no matter what the reason. but you need to decide if it is all just to much hard work for you because if I found all this^^ I would just write you off as a friend considering what I was going throw in my life.

Be grateful with every bone in your body that you are not her and your son is not Autistic, that you don't have to deal with the pain she goes through every day, that your boy will do all the 'normal' things in life that her son may never do, be grateful you don't have her heartbreak. Is it such a hardship that your son learns about difference, that you continue to show empathy and true support and kindness to your friend. Put a boundary on it, one play date a month or something but don't dump this poor woman like the other monster mums have (savage bitches), count your blessings and treat her and her boy as you would wish to be treated if it were you. Feel very sad for this poor woman and not very sad for you.

This seems to have started off so nicely and just became haranguing! Hope you are ok Batwing and manage to find a balance between your family and your friendship. It's tough on everyone.

Seems a bit unfair that Batwing has come in for such a flaming. If she hadn't cared about her friend, she wouldn't have bothered writing here would she.

The OP has her own life, if her friend is not willing to address/explain her son's SN then really what is she meant to do.

I know, it's as if she's become the symbol of all the friends that have ever abandoned the posters here or their children. Some of the most helpful advice came further up with practical ideas for maintaining hte hand of friendship while protecting her son an family time. The rest of the thread or a lot of it would make me run a mile. It represents such sorrow and loneliness and there's no way Batwing is responsible for all that, but she's right in the firing line for it. Some very sad stories though.

Not make me run a mile, from the chldren, but just from all the blaming and harshness.

Agree with all that Brycie.

Mmm, I do see what you mean, Brycie, and I think a lot of us are saying what we wish we could have said to all those who vanished from our lives during diagnosis. The OP hasn't done that.

OP being given a hard time, you say?
Actually, if you re-call Op came here, and it initially SEEMED as if she only wanted validation, from us, that she was o.k. to drop this friend. She didn't directly say, how do I change this a little bit, can you give me some advice as to how to remedy it. Thats not what OP said. What she said was :
"I find this very unfair , It's very stressful.
I just want an easier life. It pretty much ruined my Friday night as it is a constant barage of tantrums, which I could really have done without.
but when life is a little busier for me, I want to take the easier route.
it is very draining and I don't look forward to it. I'm sorry but it's the truth. I just don't. I really would like some peace and quiet at times too. "

This sounds like, IS a woman who wants out of the friendship, but doesn't have the guts to say so. She wants us to tell her that this is o.k. to do.
But we haven't been able to do that, have we?

That is the impression I got oblomov, not someone looking to help their friend and looking for ways to support her, but looking for approval to end the frienship as they are draining the op and she does not want it anymore

Really the woman is best off without the op who is tired of it all and does not wan the responsibility

I did say it was fine not to be able to cope, and that ime about 80% of NT only parents can't. And that it all sorts itself out in the end. I also said it was hard work, even if someone is on the ball and doing everything correctly. The friend here sounds as if she has a little way to go, but even if she does end up on the ball and totally on top of the dx, it'll still be hard work. I also said for the last 8 years I have been mainly on the NT side of the fence.

Yet we get accused of bitterness (because I haven't bothered to keep in contact with people who made it clear they couldn't cope with, or were embarrassed b,y ds1 being severely disabled). I'm not bitter, I just couldn't be arsed - I have enough friends who like him a lot, why would I waste time on those that don't like him because he's disabled?