Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not understand the words "I'm not a feminist"?

414 replies

bushymcbush · 14/10/2012 22:51

I've seen this countless times on MN and I really don't get it.

Actually I've heard it quite a few times in RL too.

So, to those of you who are so keen to communicate your non-feminist standing, could you please explain to me which part of 'total equality between the sexes' you disagree with?

Alternatively, you could (gently) explain to me which part of that generic description of feminism I seem to have misunderstood?

OP posts:
SeveredEdMcDunnough · 15/10/2012 06:50

I hope in that muddled up post you can find the gist of what I mean...just that fighting for equal rights should never mean seeking to injure/harm/take apart something that already has the same advantages we want.

Can an advantage be something separate or does it always implty superior rightsd - does it need a counter to exist? Maybe it is the wrong word - I mean to try and take away what men have so we can have it instead, is wrong.

HecateLarpo · 15/10/2012 06:58

That's true - nt people are not rubbish, it's just that people on the spectrum have the right to the same life, same advantages, same outcomes as them.

It is different in that some people on the spectrum are not able due to their disabilities to ever achieve that no matter what help they have, whereas women as a group do not have that and with the same opportunities and if women were seen the same way as men, there is no reason why they wouldn't be in the same place, which is one of the reasons I'm a bit eeek about trying to use it to explain what I mean, but I have a tendancy to waffle and I'd never get to the point otherwise Grin

ha! As if that wasn't waffly. Grin

Yes, I am very protective of my sons and will never agree that them being male makes them bad in any way and I get angry at the suggestion that simply being male makes you wrong Grin but at the same time, I do see a big gender inequality that needs to be addressed.

I don't like our sexualised society full stop. But I don't think anyone can claim that men are sexualised like women are. There's so much more to a person than their shagability. Why is that what matters most of all? We're not rutting animals. [cat'sbum mouth]

On an unrelated note, Severed, may I PM you re the asd? I won't be at all offended if you say no, but I have something you may be interested to know about

HecateLarpo · 15/10/2012 07:00

It's seven o clock in the morning, Severed - what the hell are we doing? Grin

SoupDragon · 15/10/2012 07:06

Does it make you feel good to belittle people who haven't seen the same threads as you

OP, does it make you feel good to patronise those who do not label themselves the same way as you do?

I'm not sure your original post could be any more condescending. That is why I would never call myself a feminist - their behaviour on MN has seen to that.

EdithWeston · 15/10/2012 07:10

I find it's always more interesting when there are threads outside the FWR forum which discuss feminist issue, for there is a wider range of views and sometimes more vigorous, generally better debate.

So i've concluded something is wrong sometimes with the label "feminist", and the stifling of debate seems to be part of that. And one that seems more concerned with staring up its own bottom (with the endless, regularly recurring threads about the nature of the "space").

The term "feminist" is meant to be much more than that; it's not meant to be monolithic (I remember talking to someone who could discuss at length every shade of meaning of every utterance of infighting Communist party leaders in Russia but simply could not /would not see that feminism was nuanced. So either "feminism" is manifesting itself as a narrower concept than intended, or the term is irreclaimable.

differentnameforthis · 15/10/2012 07:11

I just don't like labels full stop

Agreed!

I don't want to be called anything except my name (mum is OK if I gave birth to you, & Oi..by my dh :) ). Not feminist, not yummy mummy, not scummy mummy, not milf... not anything!

What is the obsession with having to label everything/one? I want people, all people, to get a fair go at everything/anything they want to do, I want things to be equal. I don't need a name to want that!

differentnameforthis · 15/10/2012 07:26

I suppose the stereotype is in fact a patriarchal construct designed to turn women off feminism so we won't get too powerful ... sadly it's working

So women don't want to be feminists because men constructed a stereotype to turn us against it?

That's a huge leap! Perhaps they don't want to be feminists because feminists (some not all) have created a stereotype that puts them off? I.e that all the bad in the world is down to men!

Latara · 15/10/2012 07:28

I am a feminist.

I also try not to be sexist in my attitudes towards men.

How can a woman look at the world today & not be a feminist??

Latara · 15/10/2012 07:33

I am a feminist - my favourite colours are pinks & reds; i dye my hair; i look very feminine - but i also believe that women should be treated equally to men.
That is why i say i am a feminist.

Our physical differences are real & should be acknowledged; but men & women are equal in worth.

theodorakis · 15/10/2012 07:34

I am a humanist but I think you have to be a feminist if you are a humanist. i am not particularly bothered by the politics of feminism and i don't even hate the government. I do, however, struggle with the covert and blatant discrimination in the UK. People are so bloody right on, yet the last time I worked there I was senior management in a school but for some reason it was my job to serve the headmaster tea.
In the Middle East, you probably won't believe me but in my company (40,000 employees) women are positively discriminated very aggressively. Somehow it seems to work. Most layers of management are headed by female Qataris. We were sceptical at first but my God, these women are massively educated (mostly at Leeds University-why??) and ace to work for. No shoulder chips, just professional management. The men who work with them have respect in my experience. Maternity leave is as long as you feel you need and the law is that your job has to be held open for 5 years unpaid if you want to stay at home. I appreciate that they have the money and are a new country able to create a new culture but it really is interesting that it has turned round so quickly.

theodorakis · 15/10/2012 07:36

And a quick straw poll of my Arabic colleagues says "of course we are feminists", I guess when you have less liberal regimes on your doorstep you don't think it is a bad word.

WofflingOn · 15/10/2012 07:40

So why do feminists get irritated that women are saying they are not feminist if they are making feminist choices? Living feminist lives and raising their children with feminist ideals even if they shun the label?
Does it matter?

mutny · 15/10/2012 07:44

I would ask why does it matter what we label ourselves?

on here a few weeks ago a 'feminist' posted that any women who dye their hair, shave their legs or wear make up were stupid. That she would only acknowledge a woman as intelligent if they looked how she bought they should. She did get the irony. because she labeled herself a feminsit, she felt she had the right to tell other women what they should wear, how they should look etc.

That's why poeple back away fro. The feminist label. Because there are a few feminist that are not at all. They just like to judge women and put them down.

theodorakis · 15/10/2012 07:45

Yes it does matter. Feminism isn't lesbians in dungarees and Greenham Common. Feminism is being free, there are many women in the UK who are not free.

I grew up in the 80s with a Greenham Common mum who wore boiler suits and hated men (only for a while when it was trendy). It didn't empower me. The fact that she is a strong woman who has succeeded in life through hard times and has always supported her daughter's choices, even the crazy ones is important. She has her own house and I know if I ever need to, I can go there tomorrow. I admire the way she has supported us but at the same time encouraged us to bugger off and get on with our lives.

theodorakis · 15/10/2012 07:46

Wow, I am a feminist with a boob job, Botox, lasered bits and shaved legs. I earned every penny to spend as I wished. That is feminism in the same way the Daily Mail is a Newspaper.

AbigailAdams · 15/10/2012 07:47

Yep Worra, all those radical feminists bombing and killing innocent civilians. I can totally see why you don't want to associate yourselves with feminism.

mutny · 15/10/2012 07:49

Yep Worra, all those radical feminists bombing and killing innocent civilians. I can totally see why you don't want to associate yourselves with feminism.

Totally missing the point.

catgirl1976 · 15/10/2012 07:50

Theo, I am assuming your snarky post was aimed at Latara.

If it is, then you will notice she said her belief that women should be equal to men is what made her a feminist.

WofflingOn · 15/10/2012 07:51

' The fact that she is a strong woman who has succeeded in life through hard times and has always supported her daughter's choices, even the crazy ones is important.'

Exactly that. Speaking as one who used to visit the GC camp with collected donations, wore dungarees and still doesn't dye, thread, fuss with my pubes or wear heels.
Those are my choices, because that is my comfort zone. Noting to do with being a feminist.

WofflingOn · 15/10/2012 07:55

AA, back to the 'Wot about them homocidal femacidal menz?' statements?
This was quite an interesting debate,but possibly as Edith said:

'So i've concluded something is wrong sometimes with the label "feminist", and the stifling of debate seems to be part of that. And one that seems more concerned with staring up its own bottom (with the endless, regularly recurring threads about the nature of the "space").'
And the warmongering of men. But of course, the white feathers handed out by women in WW1 to those that hadn't volunteered was because they were deluded victims of the propaganda of the patriarchy.

catgirl1976 · 15/10/2012 07:58

Wow, I am a feminist who dismisses other women because they are different to me and make choices I disagree with . That is feminism in the same way the BNP is a political party.

theodorakis · 15/10/2012 08:06

Snarky? Where? I was agreeing mainly, not snarkiness I promise. Please let me know where I was snarky and i will sincerely apologise. I am a feminist, I do have Botox and a boob job because it's my choice. I WAS AGREEING WITH LATARA. It's not always a bunfight.

theodorakis · 15/10/2012 08:08

Talk about snarky, how bitchy are you? Jesus, I was agreeing.
I meant that saying people who DO shave their legs etc are still feminist and intelligent.
Fuckinghell.

theodorakis · 15/10/2012 08:09

To clarify.
Feminists who say women should not shave their legs etc are extreme in the same way the views of the daily mail are extreme. Ok?

Proudnscary · 15/10/2012 08:10

I know what you mean Latara. And actually Theo, I am a hair dyed, lasered, high heels wearing feminist - I might even try Botox one day.

I now say 'I'm a feminist' on here and in RL because it's shorthand for saying I'm for equal rights and I'll come down on you like a tonne of bricks if you say something dodgy about womens' place in society or something in the news etc.

I also say it because other women I know in RL would never say it, because - like some on this thread - they don't want to align themselves to the stereotypical feminist. And I'm not that stereotypical feminist - so they can see that not all feminists are of the dungaree wearing ilk.

In actual fact I know pretty much fuck all about the different strands of feminism, certainly the more extreme/political. Oh and all these rad fems running amok all over Mumsnet ...where?! What threads? I don't see this at all.