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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this bus driver was 100% in the right?

137 replies

Cozy9 · 12/10/2012 17:57

A female passenger abuses the driver (swearing and racist abuse) and then hits him, he then hits her back, is he really in the wrong for doing this?

OP posts:
PigletJohn · 12/10/2012 20:18

I agree.

It's a pity the driver lost his rag, but you shouldn't hit people if you don't want them to hit you back.

We can only guess if she's hit people before and got away with it, or if this was her first time ever.

usualsuspect3 · 12/10/2012 20:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OneHandFlapping · 12/10/2012 20:23

The bus driver's response was completely disproportionate, as was his sexist rant about "if you want to be a man, I'll treat you like a man..."

He was a large, well-built man, and she was a slight woman. Ok she was being abusive, but the correct response to abuse is not a punch that resounded round the bus.

It was only after that that she hit him - and then it was only a couple of slaps, nothing like what he did to her.

I hope he does lose his job - and get prosecuted for assault. He's not fit to be out in public.

I can't believe so many people are supporting him. I suppose you all think uppity women deserve a good wallop!

usualsuspect3 · 12/10/2012 20:25

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Softlysoftly · 12/10/2012 20:26

No no no the force he used was disgusting, self defender is just that, defense she slapped him and moved away he did not need to get up and uppercut her.

I hope he loses his job.

BupcakesAndHaunting · 12/10/2012 20:26

Oh God it's a FEMINIST ISSUE.

She wasn't an uppity bitch. She was an abusive and violent bitch.

PigletJohn · 12/10/2012 20:27

I don't agree, usualsuspect3

If it had been a mouthy young man, abusing and swearing at the driver and then slapping him round the face, I would feel the same.

Nothing to do with uppity women, FFS, unless you think they ought to get get a free pass.

usualsuspect3 · 12/10/2012 20:29

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DowagersHump · 12/10/2012 20:30

Anyone who is coming into regular contact with the GP needs to be able to deal with abusive people in a way that doesn't involve punching them, no matter if they've hit you first.

She slapped him. She didn't knife him, she didn't draw a gun, she didn't actually really threaten him physically in any way. And yet he punched her so hard that she flew out the door of the bus.

And some of you think this is acceptable. Jesus wept

AgentZigzag · 12/10/2012 20:30

I'm not 100% comfortable with the 'two wrongs don't make a right' either, it's a bit too black and white for me.

It's something a parent would say to a bullied child when they haven't got a clue how to deal with the situation.

But, she was the passenger, she was built like a twig compared to him being a brick shit house, and he punched her back three times more than she must have hit him - a fair while afterwards.

I still haven't heard what she said though, but I can't believe anything she said deserved that.

usualsuspect3 · 12/10/2012 20:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PigletJohn · 12/10/2012 20:35

I think he reacted badly. That's the trouble with having employees who are human beings, they sometimes act like it. He shouldn't have done it, and no doubt he will be in trouble for it.

I also think that if you hit people, you have to accept the risk that once in a while, one of them will hit you back. If you are unlucky or careless in your choice of victims, it will be someone who is bigger, stronger and more aggressive than you.

DowagersHump · 12/10/2012 20:38

Well, he's not fit to do his job then PigletJohn.

PigletJohn · 12/10/2012 20:42

Nope, and I wouldn't want to have a job where I got abused, insulted and attacked by my customers either. Would you?

AgentZigzag · 12/10/2012 20:54

Would it make you feel any differently about how the woman behaved John, if you knew her behaviour was the result of crushing poverty when she was a child, where she was abused by the male relations she came into contact with, didn't have enough to eat - ever - and had been let down and betrayed at every turn by the authorities who were there to protect her?

Just one long list of bad luck and missed opportunity.

There are people who survive that to go on to become responsible, upstanding people, but for some it damages them so much they're distorted beyond repair.

Obviously I don't know her and am not making excuses for her behaviour, but if you actually knew what'd made her what she is you might feel differently? (and the same goes for what made the driver react so strongly too)

DowagersHump · 12/10/2012 20:56

No I wouldn't PJ but if you're dealing with the public, sometimes you have to deal with people who are angry. And you need to be able to cope with that proportionately. His reaction was way, way out of proportion. And it's not at all okay.

PigletJohn · 12/10/2012 21:02

Nope, not okay.

If you and I were driving buses, on minimum wage with no job security, working shifts, and day after day we dealt with drunks and other obnoxious people, without the training, protective gear and psychological screening that, say, PC Harwood got, and we were abused, threatened and assaulted, and we were threatened that our grandchildren would be attacked, how long would it be before we snapped? A week? A year? A lifetime?

Or would we keep a grip until we keeled over from stress, ulcers and heart disease?

BupcakesAndHaunting · 12/10/2012 21:05

I don't think it's acceptable, Dowager. I just can't wind myself up enough to give much of a shit about the woman though because she was a nasty piece of work.

If that had been a male passenger and the driver had whacked him one, you'd have all been applauding. But because it's a woman, we're supposed to give more of a shit. It's all a bit double-standardy really.

NewRowSees · 12/10/2012 21:11

They're both behaving disgustingly! That's one of the worst things I've ever seen. And he was being pretty verbally abusive before it got physical - I'm so glad I live nowhere near people like this!

usualsuspect3 · 12/10/2012 21:11

This reply has been deleted

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BlueSkySinking · 12/10/2012 21:13

he shouldn't have. Yes he should protect himself but nothing more.

AgentZigzag · 12/10/2012 21:15

Mmmm, you're right I know John, maybe her threatening his granddaughter pushed him over the edge? It's one thing taking flack yourself as part of your job, but when family's involved it made it into something else.

DowagersHump · 12/10/2012 21:18

I don't know what bus drivers earn in the US PJ but they certainly don't earn minimum wage in London so I'll discount that argument.

I'm not for a moment suggesting that her behaviour was acceptable. It really, really wasn't. It was appalling. But yes Bupcakes, I think it is relevant that she is a (young, slight) woman. From a similar size/strength ratio, it's like a 10 year old slapping me round the face (as a not very burly 5'3" woman). And I wouldn't dream of punching a 10 year old in the face. Not just because they're a child but because I'm much bigger and stronger than they are.

I'm not saying that women can be as physically aggressive as they like without repercussion at all. But it's about an appropriate response. And his wasn't.

Bupcakes - are you really saying that a woman who slaps her partner round the face deserves to be punched in the face using as much force as he can? Woah - that's pretty fucking scary

AmberLeaf · 12/10/2012 21:21

I didn't see her hit him.

He should absolutely lose his job and be charged with assault.

I bet that isn't the first time hes beaten a woman up either.

AmberLeaf · 12/10/2012 21:22

He appeared to be giving as much as he got in the verbal argument too.