To be not entirely keen to look after my Grandma

[StWinifred]

My Grandma is 100 years old and rather debilitated, although fully compos mentis.

She was being looked after her by her son, who had lived with her for decades. He had a heart attack in the 1980s and I think the strain of looking after his Mum did for him, and he suffered a fatal heart attack in July.

Since then my parents has been looking after her, in her home, which is a largely original 1930s house.

She went to stay with my parents in their own home (an hour or so away) for a few days a month or so ago. She found this a bit disorienting but they were grateful to get home; this was curtailed when she had to go back home for medical appointment.

A few weeks ago my parents wanted to go away so they asked if I could help, I said she can stay here (in our hours for a week), but there's no way I can go there because of various prearranged commitments locally, school, etc. They didn't think this was a good idea.

My sister proposes early on that she should stay in her home as she has been in the area since birth. My sister has been with her partner (she doesn't believe in marriage I think) for a decade and has no children (doesn't believe in this either). Her idea was that we (my parents, my sister, and I), should look after her a couple of days per week each.

Due to work/childcare I can only do this over the weekend. Last weekend I headed there at 6pm (takes about 1hr 45 to get there) on Saturday and got back home at 5:30pm on Monday to pick up the kids from school. My sister was there from 6pm Monday till 8am Wednesday, working from home Tuesday, and I think planning to on Wednesday also in future, though she had a meeting on Wednesday so left early - in future she might be there until afternoon/evening though.

My father said he thinks I shouldn't go every week on Saturday as it would be disruptive to our family. I haven't made any commitments.

Anyway he called on Tuesday to ask what time I was coming on Sunday, and I said I didn't know I will let you know at the end of the week. He called me today at 11:30pm to ask the same, sorry I don't know, does it make any difference? Well we were thinking of going away for a couple of days, he said. Oh really?

He then sent me a rather nagging email saying they would appreciate a routine, and also could you come round and stay with the kids during half term to balance your sister's 'input'? (My DH has work to go to, locally, so it would be me + kids.)

I replied saying sorry I can't give you a routine after only one visit there, it ain't routine yet, and I'm not about to promise to match my sister, what she does is what she can do, and she's got her circumstances and she mine, and actually I didn't really feel the house was suitable for kids when I was there.

Grandma can't make it up the stairs, so she sleeps in the living room, and there's no toilet down stairs, so there's a commode there. She's got severe incontinence so lots of pads to dispose of, plus the commode to empty. She tends to fall over and she can't be left alone at home for more than about 2 hours. She needs her breakfast, lunch, dinner prepared, plus tea, drinks, etc.

They've been in this house for nearly 3 months now and they have no bed, just two very old 'small single' mattresses on the floor. Apparently they ordered a bed from Homebase but it takes 3 weeks or something? Anyway, I thought this was ridiculous, so when I was there on Saturday I went to a local shop and they said they could deliver a bed on Wednesday. Passed this information on to my father and apparently he couldn't get through to them on the phone, so er, still no bed for me to sleep on this weekend.

There's another empty bedroom for the kids (but no bed) but the window frame is rotten and there's a hole in the window.

My DH doesn't like this arrangement at all, and thinks Grandma should go live with my parents, and that it's their responsibility to look after their mother.

My father OTOH seems to think that its our collective responsibility (the four of us being her only direct descendants), and on that basis I should tell him what I'm doing and when, and not only that but try and 'make up' days that I haven't done (when compared with my sister) because childcare in the week is not practical.

I have told him several times that my DH is not really happy about the situation/disruption to family life (e.g., last Monday and foreseeably all future Mondays was disrupted because I had to get up at 7am to give Grandma her breakfast, after she was up till 00:45 watching TV the night before, and then I had to cycle 12 miles to get to the station to get home, and was way too knackered to cook a meal for the family, or to work with my DS on his 11+ preparation), but rather than taking the attitude that 'you are helping out, thank you very much', it seems to be more a case of 'why aren't you doing more'.

I am not really sure if IABU to be resentful of this attitude.

My parents have never told me what they are doing in advance, they will just do it on the day, and I have followed their lead, so if they want to know for instance what we are doing in half-term, I will tell them the day before, because that's when I will know myself. If they want to go away or something, then give me the dates and I will try and help, but it seems like they just want to go and do some gardening at home, ok well you don't need two weeks notice for that do you, and actually perhaps you can get a bloody bed in before I come round again.

I do feel they are trying to pinch pennies. I mentioned about professional carers previously and there seemed to be a '£30k/year? That's ridiculous' attitude, as if we wouldn't consider it.

I mentioned possibly getting a carer from overseas (DH is from a developing country, and it would be much cheaper to get a family member or something, although not apparently possible with visas), and they seemed to be more interested.

Dad has fretted about things like inheritance tax thresholds and getting below it as well, although not necessarily a bad thing to avoid giving money away, it could be a symptom.

Oh, StWinifred, tell your parents to go get knotted! They are piss-takers trying to maximise what they'll get out of Grandma.

StWinifred you are definitely not being unreasonable.

I do feel though that your email doesn't really express clearly what you are prepared to do.

I would perhaps email back and state that so if you would feel comfortable with say one weekend a month or whatever it is then tell him that. If you feel it would be possible for you to do more if there was adequate sleeping facilities for your family then again mention that i.e. once you have the extra mattress I can bring the children and could come one extra night every 2 months or whatever it is.

I would also point out that your family circumstances are different from those of your sisters and the long commute and need to spend time with your young family means it is not feasible for you to match her commitment.

Horrible situation and your parents do seem to be very entitled. I hope you get some resolution.

I just spoke to my Dad. 'What time can you get here tomorrow?' was his question.

No mention of the other issues.

Fair enough they want to go away, but am not sure if I am going to have to be firmer here.

Why are you letting him boss you around? Why are you going?

stwinifred you have had lots of good advice on here.

However it is really your parents responsibility and decision. The longer you go on facilitating their lack of a grasp of reality, the longer your gran will go on living like this.

Maybe you need to make it clear that this weekend is a one off and that you will be unable to help out on a regular basis. I'm afraid you may upset your parents and there will be a fall out. But for your grans sake you have to step back from pretending that everyone will cope. Clearly your parents are not coping and there is no need for your gran to be living in those conditions. She has assets and they are not yet your parents inheritance as your gran is not dead.

Deep down all of them must know that they cannot go on like this. If you are there on Monday phone grans gp and get him to do a home visit. That will start the ball rolling. If your gran picks up an infection she will go downhill very quickly and decisions will be taken out of everyone's hands. It is better for her that it does not come to that.

Sadly it sounds like your parents are trying to maximize the inheritance at Granny expense. She needs a working bathroom, and a warm dry home. Sounds like they just want to carry on the status quo till she's gone. Sad.
Why haven't they tackled uncles room and made it into a suitable place to sleep.
The place sounds like it's falling down around her ears. Social services may not take kindly to her being left to live in these conditions. She should be taken to their house to live.
We intend to have my Mom live with us, she's in her 70's now and doesn't want to live with us until she has too, and has said so. But she knows that one day she'll be moving in and is OK with that.
But there will be a downstairs bathroom and we'll turn one living room into a bedroom/sitting room for her.

Although I agree with everyone that the situation has to change - I was quite clear on that upthread- I think the OP"s parents are getting a hard time here.

They must be pretty advanced in years themselseves and are probably just bobbing along head in the sand without themselves knowing what to do. Everyone saying that it is their responsibility to sort it out are forgetting that they were probably looking forward to having some retirement years themselves and now find themselves full time carers - that can be no fun for them either.

Yes, the parents are being a bit presumptive about what OP and her sister can do, but they deserve a break too. Definitely time for a family conference.

If it helps, we pay something like £250 per fortnight for two visits a day for our home visits - its not cheap, so it's quite right to think through the money side.

I disagree after reading on into the thread I think the OPs parents are completely out of order and rather selfish or worse greedy

OP I would do this weekend and then consider what you are happy to do eg a visit for an afternoon once a fortnight. I would forget any of the carers role stuff and consider that the responsibility of your DPs. If they want to manage her care themselves rather than sell her house theres nothing you can do about that but they should take the consequences of that decision.

It sounds like there will be a lot of foot stamping and name calling over this and you will need to decide whether to stick to your guns or give into what they want for a quiet life

Gettingeasier - if she gives in to her parents wishes it won't lead to a quiet life though. Quite reasonably imo her DH is unhappy about the proposed amount of time OP will be away from the home - different matter I think if it were her parents rather than her GP. There is no easy answer and I believe the OP has to do what will work for her children and DH as the parents have the sister and adequate funds to make the situation better.

Yes I suppose so but I imagine her DPs and sisters complaining would be worse

I agree and said upthread that it would be a different matter if it were her own parents and I half expected someone to pull me on it tbh - I have no RL experience in this

Haven't read answers, srry, but I don't think grandchildren should have to take on responsibility for their gparents. It is our duty to support and care for our parents (unless they are toxic arseholes).

Otherwise you will spend your whole life looking after elderly people. I had two elderly grandfathers who I saw a lot of but if my parents had asked me to adhere/commit to a formal arrangement or routine I'd have been pissed off and very stressed. It was stressful enough having two babies and seeing them both once a fortnight.

That house sounds disgusting, and I really doubt any cleaning day will address:

• high maintenance carpets
• inappropriate furniture
• the fact that the top floor is just not used, so will become more unusable
• the cold, since that is probably from the broken, gappy windows.

What the hell?! This is not a house that can be made livable, but needs to be gutted. Your poor grandmother, living in such a shithole!

As for you, you indicated that you could contribute to care costs, which would help you face your family with your contribution in hand. After all, money does seem to be one of the issues with your family's penny-pinchingly impractical approach to this problem.

If everyone contributed in their own way, she would have:

• a mix of personal carers (professionals who knwo what they are doing)
• family visits
• a clean and comfortable and warm place to live
• a variety of food
• family visits
• the possibility of seeing people her own age (with whom she can moan about the pains of age, and also the pains of her children!)

I really hope this thread doesn't end with the "solution" that DGM has died, whether through pneumonia, or normally, in discomfort.... She is 100, after all.

Am flagging up the safety thingies again...

Your gran is falling. That's serious, every fall is a potentially fatal event for elderly people.

You say your gran is mentally acute - so, WHY is no one asking her what she wants?

(and, it is not acceptable to go about making changes in a grown woman's home without her permission. You can't just change carpets because they stink - it's her carpet. How would you feel?)

Being frank here - elderly care is a specialist area of medicine and nursing For Good Reason. Having well meaning relatives muddling through leads to illness in these people - pressure sores can develop in a couple of hours from sitting in wee and a wrinkled pair of knickers.

GET THE GP TO COME AND ASSESS HER AT HOME. The GP will be able to get the nurse in, the social services, she might benefit from physio, an OT can organise adaptations, there are lots of organisations to provide breaks for carers and get her out the house.

Is she aware of this family stress? Must be awful for her.

You can call her GP and ask for a home visit. You don't need your family's permission - and seeing as how she is falling and her continence is not under control that's a perfectly valid thing to request her GP to do.

Focus on what's needing to be done to preserve your grandmother's health. The rest of it will fall into place after that.

Just recalled that your father begrudged £30K from his mother's estate, for his brother's family to take her in (and presumably take on more expense in money and time).

I think the money question is at play here, sorry.

And it's bloody sad your DGM can't spend it for herself, or at least have it spent on hrr.

That reminder about the bedsores is chilling.

I suggest as a first step respite care for Grandma in a home of her choice four times a year for a fortnight. It is much easier to care for someone if you know when your next decent break is and that it is for a reasonable time. That is why your dad is being difficult in his emails, he needs to know when his next break is and when he knows he will be able to cope with caring.

My dad is in a nursing home. It is smart and respectful and they bring wine or sherry round on a regular basis. I will be booking myself in if I can ever afford it!

No practical suggestions here (you've had plenty of good ones) but it sounds as though your grandmother is the only family member you have any genuine affection for. Other than your DH and DCs of course. I suspect you'd disown the rest of 'em in a heartbeat. Not sure if we're getting an overly harsh view of them or whether they really are that much of a waste of space...

Your parents' attitude is shocking - they sound like they are just biding their time for your poor GM to pass away :( And they are making unreasonable expectations of you too.

Food for thought though. If someone from outside the family (GP or neighbour perhaps) finds out about the conditions your grandmother is living in, there is a chance they will report it to social services themselves (I certainly would, personally). I'm amazed to read back that she was having carers in for a time and that the issue of her poor living conditions were not raised then :(

I heard of a case just last week where an unrelated visit by the police to an elderly woman's home led to her being rehoused - they found the conditions she was living in were shocking and they reported it to the council.

She cannot be allowed to have falls. She cannot be washing in a bucket. She cannot live in a home where her incontinence is causing the furniture and carpets to smell. She cannot live in a cold house without a proper place to sleep.

It's no way for her to live and nobody should just accept it.

Having someone (whether that's you or your sister or your parents) simply staying there to cook for her/keep her company isn't enough. She needs quite major interventions and I really think that you should get her GP to visit her at home and get social services involved.

I know it's already been said by others, but I think it's up to you to take some action as it doesn't sound like any of the rest of your family will.

I am confused about why your dad expected to be consulted about his mum spending her money on her house?!! Yes his brother may have organised it, but it was his mum's money, it's not an inheritance until the person has sadly died. Sorry but he sounds like a right piece of work, and is doing all he can to avoid paying foe decent care.

As for your dilemma, I really sympathise, it sounds like a tricky situation with the pressure being put on you. I would stand firm, reiterate what you are prepared to do, and keep on at them to go with another solution. It sounds like staying in her house will be unworkable to me.

I believe that the care of the elderly, or the responsibility for it at least, if not the physical care itself, should fall to the person's sons and daughters. You and your sister will most likely end up having to deal with these issues for you parents, this shouldn't be on your shoulders. By all means it's good to help out and visit when you can, but the ultimate responsibility is your parents'.

YANBU good luck.

Stwinifred as you're going there this weekend anyway could you use the time alone with your grandma to try to gently find out from her which options she'd be OK with?

It does sound to me as if your parents are penny pinching and waiting on the inheritance tbh - wonder if they actually know for a fact that they'll be the ones inheriting, not the cats home (or you/ your dc) :o

IMO your grandma needs to go into a home or sheltered accommodation and the run-down house with broken windows, unsanitary soft furnishings and inadequate hygiene facilities sold, and only your grandma can say yes or no to that plan, your parents in the end cannot refuse if your grandma is willing - where she lives now doesn't sound fit for human habitation and will possibly kill her over winter!

Regarding your OP you are not being U at all - of course the fact you have children including a child with additional needs (i.e. caring responsibilities that fall only on you and your DH) is absolutely relevant to how much time you can reasonably be expected to spend living away from home caring for an elderly relative who is not 100% dependant on you alone!

Your recent revelation about your Dad being annoyed at his inheritence being spent doesn't bode well IMO. I asked further up rIs there any reason they dont want to pay for care for your Grandmother? as in my mind I was wondering why they dont want to get specialised help in.

I know a lot of elderly people can be a bit stubborn at accepting outside help or even residential care but there comes a time when this is needed. I think your Grandmothers time has come. At minimum she needs carers to come in but I would think residential much more suitable for her. As others have pointed out it is not dignified or healthy for an elderly lady to be washing in a bucket and struggling with incontinece issues.

I think you need to contact Adult Social Care or the GP and asked to have your GM's needs assesed.

And if this takes up your DF's 'inheritance' so be it

I also think this would be much better for your family all round. Your visits can be just that... spending precious time visiting your GM with your DC's hopefully in an atmosphere where all her needs have been met, and you can just spend time with her. I think this would be better for your Gran as well

I think those who suggest asking the granny what she wants are wrong. Virtually 100% of elderly people are desperate to stay in their own home, and will not countenance any suggestions to the contrary. They will plead, make you feel guilty and not care how much trouble they cause. Sometimes with elderly people you have to be the grown-up and make a decision that's best for them. In the case of OP, it sounds ludicrous that the granny is not being properly cared for and it appears that the mum & dad are thinking of money.

Mil has recently gone into a home at the cost of £800 a week. Mil didn't want to go, but she was doubly incontinent and was refusing to deal with carers. She insisted that 89-year-old fil could do all the nappy changing etc and of course he couldn't manage.

I'm not sure Family Conferences achieve much if you know in advance people have different views.

I think OP should contact GP and alert him/her to the situation.

Letty you might have a point there - although I wonder if you can force this - my 99 year old grandmother wasn't as pleasant a lady as the OP's and threw her meals at the nursing home carers and was generally rude and unpleasant until they asked my parents to remove her They would have had to have her sectioned and sent to a specialist home to keep her in residential care against her will!

When dh went in to see mil yesterday she was busy ripping up her menu sheet she was supposed to be filling in

When she was in hospital I think several of the staff were taken out in straightjackets...