To be not entirely keen to look after my Grandma

[StWinifred]

My Grandma is 100 years old and rather debilitated, although fully compos mentis.

She was being looked after her by her son, who had lived with her for decades. He had a heart attack in the 1980s and I think the strain of looking after his Mum did for him, and he suffered a fatal heart attack in July.

Since then my parents has been looking after her, in her home, which is a largely original 1930s house.

She went to stay with my parents in their own home (an hour or so away) for a few days a month or so ago. She found this a bit disorienting but they were grateful to get home; this was curtailed when she had to go back home for medical appointment.

A few weeks ago my parents wanted to go away so they asked if I could help, I said she can stay here (in our hours for a week), but there's no way I can go there because of various prearranged commitments locally, school, etc. They didn't think this was a good idea.

My sister proposes early on that she should stay in her home as she has been in the area since birth. My sister has been with her partner (she doesn't believe in marriage I think) for a decade and has no children (doesn't believe in this either). Her idea was that we (my parents, my sister, and I), should look after her a couple of days per week each.

Due to work/childcare I can only do this over the weekend. Last weekend I headed there at 6pm (takes about 1hr 45 to get there) on Saturday and got back home at 5:30pm on Monday to pick up the kids from school. My sister was there from 6pm Monday till 8am Wednesday, working from home Tuesday, and I think planning to on Wednesday also in future, though she had a meeting on Wednesday so left early - in future she might be there until afternoon/evening though.

My father said he thinks I shouldn't go every week on Saturday as it would be disruptive to our family. I haven't made any commitments.

Anyway he called on Tuesday to ask what time I was coming on Sunday, and I said I didn't know I will let you know at the end of the week. He called me today at 11:30pm to ask the same, sorry I don't know, does it make any difference? Well we were thinking of going away for a couple of days, he said. Oh really?

He then sent me a rather nagging email saying they would appreciate a routine, and also could you come round and stay with the kids during half term to balance your sister's 'input'? (My DH has work to go to, locally, so it would be me + kids.)

I replied saying sorry I can't give you a routine after only one visit there, it ain't routine yet, and I'm not about to promise to match my sister, what she does is what she can do, and she's got her circumstances and she mine, and actually I didn't really feel the house was suitable for kids when I was there.

Grandma can't make it up the stairs, so she sleeps in the living room, and there's no toilet down stairs, so there's a commode there. She's got severe incontinence so lots of pads to dispose of, plus the commode to empty. She tends to fall over and she can't be left alone at home for more than about 2 hours. She needs her breakfast, lunch, dinner prepared, plus tea, drinks, etc.

They've been in this house for nearly 3 months now and they have no bed, just two very old 'small single' mattresses on the floor. Apparently they ordered a bed from Homebase but it takes 3 weeks or something? Anyway, I thought this was ridiculous, so when I was there on Saturday I went to a local shop and they said they could deliver a bed on Wednesday. Passed this information on to my father and apparently he couldn't get through to them on the phone, so er, still no bed for me to sleep on this weekend.

There's another empty bedroom for the kids (but no bed) but the window frame is rotten and there's a hole in the window.

My DH doesn't like this arrangement at all, and thinks Grandma should go live with my parents, and that it's their responsibility to look after their mother.

My father OTOH seems to think that its our collective responsibility (the four of us being her only direct descendants), and on that basis I should tell him what I'm doing and when, and not only that but try and 'make up' days that I haven't done (when compared with my sister) because childcare in the week is not practical.

I have told him several times that my DH is not really happy about the situation/disruption to family life (e.g., last Monday and foreseeably all future Mondays was disrupted because I had to get up at 7am to give Grandma her breakfast, after she was up till 00:45 watching TV the night before, and then I had to cycle 12 miles to get to the station to get home, and was way too knackered to cook a meal for the family, or to work with my DS on his 11+ preparation), but rather than taking the attitude that 'you are helping out, thank you very much', it seems to be more a case of 'why aren't you doing more'.

I am not really sure if IABU to be resentful of this attitude.

My parents have never told me what they are doing in advance, they will just do it on the day, and I have followed their lead, so if they want to know for instance what we are doing in half-term, I will tell them the day before, because that's when I will know myself. If they want to go away or something, then give me the dates and I will try and help, but it seems like they just want to go and do some gardening at home, ok well you don't need two weeks notice for that do you, and actually perhaps you can get a bloody bed in before I come round again.

I've only skimmed through the thread but I would say its really admirable that the hope is to keep grans care within the family however IMHO her requirements are out of your remit. It sounds like the safest and healthiest option for gran would be a care home or assisted living facility. You haven't got a crystal ball to know how long this is going to continue and if everyone is fed up and knackered then you won't be giving granny the full attention she needs. I hope you find a solution

I'm guessing your parents are not in the first flush of youth either?

Is their expectation that you might also, in time care for them?

Time for full and frank discussions

Lovely.

Regardless of guilt trips, and this person does that etc.. It is the needs of your nan that should be considered. Her current set up is not in her best interests. Washing out of a bucket and using a commode because she cannot get up the stairs implies that she does not take bath/showers.
Then there's the windows. Are downstairs as bad as upstairs, albeit apart from the hole? Again this isn't an ideal place for her to be living in, especially since winter is coming.
Talk to nan and find out what she wants, forget about what other relatives want. If they want the situation to continue as it is, then suggest they live in her shoes for a month and then tell you its fine..

I don't understand why nothing better can be done.

Does someone have power of attorney (if that is the right term) over her money.

If she IS going to stay put (but that seems daft to me) for heave's sake get it repaired and refitted.

Surely even her weekly pension (about 100 a week I think) would pay for say 8 hours of care from an outsider. So that's one day time or night time less a week. Also I think with the present situation the SS might pay for some respite care so perhaps that would be so many days a month?? So that's something less for you all to do. Plus I would think she is entitled to some care by ss (help to bath or bed bath once a week maybe). And 30,000 would provide alot of hours from a nice carer. You might find a lovely person (or two if that's what it takes) who she loves to have call in everyday to help her wash etc

It amazes me that these oldies seem to be willing to so put on their families. I hope to god I have the sense to INSIST that I pay for someone to wipe my bum and not guilt trip children and grandchildren into it. I really feel her house should be sold so she can move into a nice care home, then family can do the nice days out, play cards, read to her etc and not the daily grind.

Can only think your DPs are biding their time for the intheritance or why not do the repairs?

Has anybody asked Grandma what she wants? I think that's really important but if she is unreasonable about what she wants you don't have to honour it. A simple "sorry but that is just not practical" works wonders.

While I can understand your feelings on this, I think the way you are expressing them to your parents is very much about your needs - holidays, relaxing time etc. Also your language and comments about what they have done, ie you were "startled" "disconcerted", is all very negative and critical. All of this will just put their backs up more, especially if they are already being martyrs about the situation.

Do offer practical solutions where you can. If you can't be a live in carer (and I don't blame you, really I don't) then can you contribute towards the costs of some of the adjustments that need to be made?

Instead of talking to them about your needs and criticising what they have done, give a list of things you can do. And if necessary chuck money at the problems rather than time. For example:

I will come and look after grandma for X weekends over the next X months. Please advise me which of the following dates would suit you.

I will pay for a cleaner to come once a week.

I will arrange for meals on wheels

I will contact the council to see what support they can offer

I will arrange for proper beds for you to sleep in while you are there

I will pay for a nurse/home help to come for x hours over the next X months. Please advise me what days this would be most suitable from the following list of dates.

I will contact local charities to see what options there are for day centres for Grandma so she can get out and socialise.

I will pay for transport to enable Grandma to attend day centres once a week.

My grandfather is 90. He needs a lot of care - we ( I.e my mum aunt, me, sister and our cousin) COULD work a rota for him to stay in his home, but it would kill us and be bad for him.

We've gone down the assessment/care/selling of assets route - he's being well looked after and no one has to play the martyr, as your sister is doing.

As Celine said, a difficult conversation was had with my grandfather - what he 'wanted' (ie to stay at home) was unworkable. It was a hard process, but 'we' had to make tough decisions in his interests and to ensure continuity/decent levels of care.

Also, since money is being discussed-

Is your gran receiving attendance allowance? And is your mother claiming carers allowance.?

If not they should contact the DWP as a matter of urgency. I think that some of this can be backdated.

I think you need to stop trying to keep up with your sister who has a different set up at home and either chooses to or finds it easier to adapt to caring for your grandma. If you feel you can contribute financially then do so as this could perhaps pay for a carer for the weekend or maybe think very carefully about what you would be ale to offer maybe a weekend once a month or once a fortnight. Would it be possible to have Grandma at yours for a couple of days? I don't think Yabu to say no to the arrangement proposed. I think you are going to have to start speaking calmly and frankly to your family. I can see this won't be easy. My sister also has very unreasonable expectations of others. I am very clear with her and I find this works best. Try saying clearly I can see that this is what might be ideal but it doesn't work for me and my family. And then say nothing. I think you can get very entrenched in trying to defend ourself and explain. This maes it worse in my experience.

Some very good practical suggestions from celine I would take up some of these options.

Perhaps "I can" would be better than "I will". Less assumptive.

I think you all need to get together and talk about the issues face to face. You, your sister, your Mum and Dad and your Gran. You need to find out what your Gran wants?

Then refer to SS for a full assessment. This can include an OT assessment for the living situation and consideration for respite. You can all then decide what bits of the care package to access from SS, what bits to buy in and what can be provided by family. It's not an all or nothing situation.

You might not find SS very helpful - we didn't. Probably worth a try as I expect its one of those very variable things dependent on location and who you get and their work load.

They assessed one of my GP as able to cope and needing no assistance their criteria was he could make a cup of tea. They may have caught him on a good day or fudged the test less than week later he'd injured himself and was in hospital where dementia was finally diagnose.

Even finding care homes they were no help my parents had to do it all even when this caused delays with emptying the hospital beds.

Having said that the sanitation issues would probably raise red flags in your case.

Many people go along with idea of it won't be forever - and then find it longer and harder than they thought and it starts to damage their health and I've seen it breed massive bitterness and resentment which taints memories and relationships.

Hard though it is it is best to think well this situation may go on for years and plan accordingly - so everyone is looked after.

"Is their expectation that you might also, in time care for them?"

No idea. I think there is a difference to be fair.

I don't expect my parents to look after my children (well they have had them the odd weekend here in there, maybe 3 weeks in total in 10 years (at least once at their request)), and equally I think there's a difference in responsibility between child to parent and child to grandparent, and vice versa.

I was quite pissed off tbh that my Dad seems to being presumptuous about my responsibility here.

yes, it's not a normal presumption that grandchildren do the care or arrange the care, it's normally the next generation down, unless that generation is missing or incapable.

It's ok to say no to your Dad, although to be fair, it could be that as your sister has taken on the responsiblity that he assumes you will too. It's changed the normal dynamic. She might well have been saying things like "don't be silly, of course St Winifred and I will take on some of the burden".

Does your dad normally look after your mum BTW? You mention that your mum sleeps late and your dad would get in from work and sort things out, could it be he's used to protecting your mum from stuff that's really her 'job' - and so is trying to find care solutions that don't involve her having to do it?

'I was quite pissed off tbh that my Dad seems to being presumptuous about my responsibility here.'

Oh, I'd be FUMING! And he'd know it, too. That's why it's really important you don't keep saying, 'I'm keen to help out'. Instead you need to be very clear, 'I can provide respite this number of days this month, on these dates.'

And this is starting to seem fishy - they should be able to sell her house to get her decent care and should have done this ages ago.

Sounds like someone's trying to maximise the money they'll get when she dies.

I missed the bit that she was incontinent. That is a lot to deal with. Really they need someone professional coming in to help her either NHS or private, especially if the money is there as you say. Most people though would put elderly relatives in a home by the time they need as much care as your gran needs.

I'm curious, presuming GM is your Dads Mum ?? - did he help his brother with her at all, or leave him too it, for that matter, if its your mums mum, did she help her brother much at all??

either way IMHO Your Dad really IS taking the P & I suspect quite probably playing you & your DSIS off against each other for best effect to get the most help, so I don't blame you for being annoyed, sadly you do need to stand up to him & don't allow him to put you on a guilt trip. Whatever their reasonings are for keeping your DGM in her home, its NOT in anyones best interest, unless of course the others are right about DF covering their inheritance - bottom line is, with the undignified way your poor DGM is living, its definitely NOT in her best interests :( - so something has to give & the sooner you stop pussy footing around & stand up to your DPs over this the better.

As for finances for an assisted care place, I do know my own DPs didn't sell or let out their own home, they had a 2 bed semi detached Hannover bungalow, with garden etc so one of the most expensive ones to rent, & they managed fine, I know that Hannover arranged the finances for them & it was some of the care benefits that went into paying the rent, the rent also included bills & food, so bar telephone & a bit of extra food they had little else to pay for & managed very well financially, despite still paying a mortgage on their own property - they do have other pensions, but they also had a mortgage, so I'm pretty sure financing a small flat for your DGM with the care component etc would be pretty easy -

why don't you give Hannover a ring & ask their advice on how financing works, get your info together & then have that family meeting

"I'm curious, presuming GM is your Dads Mum ?? - did he help his brother with her at all, or leave him too it, for that matter, if its your mums mum, did she help her brother much at all??"

Mum's mum, and she didn't do much in the few months she has needed the extreme care. Dad's mum has been looked after by Dad's brother, but using their mum's money, as a result of which Dad no longer speaks to brother as he wasn't consulted (Dad's brother is a doer, and my parents are do-nothingers, so she would have been left by my Dad 200 miles away on her own, after my Grandad died, if Dad's brother hadn't intervened).

Will try and find somewhere very local, as that's one of the factors with where she is now; don't think Hannover has one in her area.

I don't understand why your parents are putting so much of this responsibility on your shoulders OP.

I suspect that the situation is only going to get properly sorted if you actually start the ball rolling and do some research. Not particularly fair on you especially as you have other demands on your time but probably better to get a proper solution in place than have ongoing unreasonable demands.

Possibly a good place to start:

www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/social-care-and-support-where-to-start/

So basically they are expecting you + ur DSIS to do what they haven't done themselves, huge ask without that, but that would make very cross, its really very unfair.

I meant speaking with Hannover by way of finding out how the finances would work, I expect they are all pretty much the same, but it was definitely benefits that paid for my DPs, Hannover even helped them with claiming to cover costs, as they'd not claimed before even though they are quite wealthy.

Use that anger to help your GM, by the sounds of it, its really what she needs, good luck