To be not entirely keen to look after my Grandma

[StWinifred]

My Grandma is 100 years old and rather debilitated, although fully compos mentis.

She was being looked after her by her son, who had lived with her for decades. He had a heart attack in the 1980s and I think the strain of looking after his Mum did for him, and he suffered a fatal heart attack in July.

Since then my parents has been looking after her, in her home, which is a largely original 1930s house.

She went to stay with my parents in their own home (an hour or so away) for a few days a month or so ago. She found this a bit disorienting but they were grateful to get home; this was curtailed when she had to go back home for medical appointment.

A few weeks ago my parents wanted to go away so they asked if I could help, I said she can stay here (in our hours for a week), but there's no way I can go there because of various prearranged commitments locally, school, etc. They didn't think this was a good idea.

My sister proposes early on that she should stay in her home as she has been in the area since birth. My sister has been with her partner (she doesn't believe in marriage I think) for a decade and has no children (doesn't believe in this either). Her idea was that we (my parents, my sister, and I), should look after her a couple of days per week each.

Due to work/childcare I can only do this over the weekend. Last weekend I headed there at 6pm (takes about 1hr 45 to get there) on Saturday and got back home at 5:30pm on Monday to pick up the kids from school. My sister was there from 6pm Monday till 8am Wednesday, working from home Tuesday, and I think planning to on Wednesday also in future, though she had a meeting on Wednesday so left early - in future she might be there until afternoon/evening though.

My father said he thinks I shouldn't go every week on Saturday as it would be disruptive to our family. I haven't made any commitments.

Anyway he called on Tuesday to ask what time I was coming on Sunday, and I said I didn't know I will let you know at the end of the week. He called me today at 11:30pm to ask the same, sorry I don't know, does it make any difference? Well we were thinking of going away for a couple of days, he said. Oh really?

He then sent me a rather nagging email saying they would appreciate a routine, and also could you come round and stay with the kids during half term to balance your sister's 'input'? (My DH has work to go to, locally, so it would be me + kids.)

I replied saying sorry I can't give you a routine after only one visit there, it ain't routine yet, and I'm not about to promise to match my sister, what she does is what she can do, and she's got her circumstances and she mine, and actually I didn't really feel the house was suitable for kids when I was there.

Grandma can't make it up the stairs, so she sleeps in the living room, and there's no toilet down stairs, so there's a commode there. She's got severe incontinence so lots of pads to dispose of, plus the commode to empty. She tends to fall over and she can't be left alone at home for more than about 2 hours. She needs her breakfast, lunch, dinner prepared, plus tea, drinks, etc.

They've been in this house for nearly 3 months now and they have no bed, just two very old 'small single' mattresses on the floor. Apparently they ordered a bed from Homebase but it takes 3 weeks or something? Anyway, I thought this was ridiculous, so when I was there on Saturday I went to a local shop and they said they could deliver a bed on Wednesday. Passed this information on to my father and apparently he couldn't get through to them on the phone, so er, still no bed for me to sleep on this weekend.

There's another empty bedroom for the kids (but no bed) but the window frame is rotten and there's a hole in the window.

My DH doesn't like this arrangement at all, and thinks Grandma should go live with my parents, and that it's their responsibility to look after their mother.

My father OTOH seems to think that its our collective responsibility (the four of us being her only direct descendants), and on that basis I should tell him what I'm doing and when, and not only that but try and 'make up' days that I haven't done (when compared with my sister) because childcare in the week is not practical.

I have told him several times that my DH is not really happy about the situation/disruption to family life (e.g., last Monday and foreseeably all future Mondays was disrupted because I had to get up at 7am to give Grandma her breakfast, after she was up till 00:45 watching TV the night before, and then I had to cycle 12 miles to get to the station to get home, and was way too knackered to cook a meal for the family, or to work with my DS on his 11+ preparation), but rather than taking the attitude that 'you are helping out, thank you very much', it seems to be more a case of 'why aren't you doing more'.

I am not really sure if IABU to be resentful of this attitude.

My parents have never told me what they are doing in advance, they will just do it on the day, and I have followed their lead, so if they want to know for instance what we are doing in half-term, I will tell them the day before, because that's when I will know myself. If they want to go away or something, then give me the dates and I will try and help, but it seems like they just want to go and do some gardening at home, ok well you don't need two weeks notice for that do you, and actually perhaps you can get a bloody bed in before I come round again.

My grandparents did Equity Release on their house, it's not a good thing to do, the rate of interest is massive. They incurred about £20 a day I think, which built up quickly. The house sold for £125k, 115 of which went to the equity release company, my GPs had only actually spent a fraction of it.
Also, the money has to be repaid within 12 months of the persons death, so if the house needs a lot of work or takes ages to sell you could find yourself in an awkward financial position. We finally completed on my gran's house a month before the deadline, it was v stressful.

Good luck with the family discussions, you know you're in the right, so stick to your guns.

Stwinifred - there are financial advisers who specialise in planning for care costs. It would be worth your parents speaking to one

Well done on finding your way forward - good luck with the family wrangling

You sound much more confident and assertive than you did with the wishy washy email you sent. well done. You have the situation accurately and fairly summed up. Stick to your guns.

You are correct - it is not you being unfair and unreasonable. Your own family must come first and you giving long distance care is untenable.

Your are spot on with what you say YANBU !!

Are you sure she wants to stay at home?

YANBU! all the very best of luck OP x

Equity release is useful where there are not alternative options for getting funds. However, they are a last resort option and should not be entered into lightly, and given your GMs age, would be unlikely to be good value - they have huge interest charged because the company is essentially taking a bet as to how long it will be out of pocket, and the interest is based on an average expected rest of life of up to 10 years (which is sadly unlikely for a centenarian).

It's so hard op and I do not doubt for one minute that you love your Grandma and want to support her, but you have reasonably drawn the line at her living with you.

If she doesn't want to move then you can get carers in to make sure she's okay and has breakfast/evening meal and take any meds... it's not actually that expensive if you can't get help financially. It gives you peace of mind, it looks after her needs. On this issue I agree with your Dad that it is a collective responsibility. You can then all take turns to visit her a couple of times a week so that she never has a day alone.

My FIL has Alzheimer's. He's fit as a flea physically. He does not want to move. We have no room here for him, my BIL has no room for him unless he sells FIL's house and builds an extension, this would not be in FIL's best interests. He has carers twice a day, everyday (except when we cancel them if we're going to see him all day) and I visit twice a week, DH twice a week and BIL 3 times, we each see him on a Saturday or Sunday on a rota (sometimes the full weekend). The Alzheimer's society also take him out 3 times a week for the day, he won't sleep if he's not tired, then he gets more confused, so tiring him out is brilliant for him.

He is not ready for a nursing home.

StWinifred I know your Granny doesn't have Alzheimer's, but you could arrange for similar care.

I do not believe getting elderly relatives to come and live with you is always the best choice for anyone. Love and support can be given without that. Good luck, and I hope between you all you can organise a care package that enables Granny to remain independant enough, and allows you to be a caring and effective Grandchild... there is nothing wrong with your opinion at all.

My GMIL was at a fabulous home where there were staff but it was social and fun for her, there are some lovely homes that look after the non medical needs of an elderly person. yes they are expensive. I also think they are worth it, she has a home she can sell and she has some savings that could be used one would assume.

She wouldn't be lonely, she would be fed and watered (in gmil case well watered ) and have a social life where she wouldn't have to rely on a rota of family who probably need to be doing more than one thing. She can take trinkets and other bits from home, she might even find one with a lovely garden that she can go and sit in with her new friends!

Gfil actually got a girlfriend which was lovely after his wife of 60 years died!

Gmil used to hate being away from her new home, much like when we drag the dc over the il's for xmas, its not that we don't want to go but that we want to do it our own home. So did she!

Ask her, let her be involved in the choice, even at 30K per year she is unlikely to be around in 10 years time so there might be some inheritance left for your dp's. Although they are doing some of the caring it sounds very much like they are actually quite lazy people and so you need to point out to them that something like a home would be the best option. No one likes to leave their home, however she may really love it!

Parents are back from holidays now.

They are at home. They are supposed to be at Grandma's, but my sister is being virtuous and looking after her for another day.

I spoke to Dad for about 45 minutes on the phone, saying what I said above, basically that we may not be the best carers for her, that she might prefer someone her own age, that it's not a good idea to have THREE sets of lives ruined for her, that we need to find something good for her, but the situation at the present is good for her but bad for everyone else.

I tried to get him to agree that the situation was not only bad for us but also bad for him too. He didn't entirely go along with this, it was very much 'I can see that this is difficult for you, no you're not being unreasonable to say if that's how it is.', without ever quite saying that I was right that the arrangement itself is wrong. He was agreeing with everything I said but on a 'yes that's the way you feel' kind of way.

I said that the toilet situation was unreasonable, and he said well he didn't think from what she'd said Grandma wanted major changes made. I asked if they had actually gone as far as getting an actual 'we'll do this, this and this' from a builder, and putting that to her. No, I didn't think so, it was just a vague 'major renovations' suggestion.

When I said 'I don't think you'd be spending 3 days a week from there really, you need to separate your social obligations from Grandma's care needs', he said 'well it's better than what we were doing before'.

I talked about getting a live-in carer, an old lady or something, or finding an apartment thing locally, and he said 'well we hadn't considered that before, we just thought she would stay there with us, come back to our house, or this arrangement sharing care'.

I said I thought it was best to say now that this arrangement is unworkable rather than a year down the line - it's not a long term arrangement, and he said 'well I didn't think it was necessarily long term, I was thinking maybe six months '

They do things glacially slowly.

He said it was difficult for my Mum going to the launderette (more than a mile's walk), and other tasks, etc., and I just thought to myself 'so why have you not managed to get a washing machine installed in the 3 months you have been there, it's not that major really.'

Having spent 40 minutes with me explaining how unreasonable and unworkable the arrangement is, and him saying 'yes I can see that it's difficult for you', he said 'well what about this weekend '. I said 'sorry, we have engagements Saturday and Sunday, then DD has a play date on Tuesday (half term next week for us), she's been wanting to do this for ages, so nothing before then, maybe the end of next week.'

I asked him what he was going to do and he said he would look but I should do some research myself.

So I get the impression they will do fuck all, very slowly, and until another arrangement is in place they will expect me round there every weekend (although I have said no to this weekend). So I think I need to commit to going their with the kids there for the second half of next week, to compete with my virtuous sister, and to store up some goodwill, because until I implement an alternative arrangement, they are still expecting me round there each week.

Bear in mind:

my parent's own toilet does not flush (broken)
my parent's own bathroom does not lock (broken)
they had an ancient TV until I bought them a flat panel for Christmas
their oven is rotting and falling apart
they had no microwave until I bought them a combi-oven (partly in view of the oven situation) for Christmas

So the chances of them actually changing the status quo in terms of Grandma's care by themselves are approximately nil, because they are procastinators, not doers.

So I'm still expected to do this whenever possible for the indefinite future, until I sort out something else.

Gawd love you, St W.

short answer - you don't have to sort something out.

Phone the GP tomorrow morning; tell him/her that she is falling, that the family is stressed, that her toiletting is not managed effectively, and that you are the only person who is sensible enough to manage to call in professional help.

You don't even need to tell your family that you dobbed them in asked for help. Over 80's should get an annual MOT from their GP practice. Call her GP, state the difficulties, lay it on thick about the difficulties, mention the difficulties. Ask your GP not to mention that you'd spoken about the difficulties. GP could just "pop in" to check on her BP/continence/memory/oh, I was just passing and wondered how you are...

It is perfectly reasonable for you to ask for professional help in managing a frail and much loved family member.

Your folks sound well meaning. Which is great, but not enough.

It is your gran's GP's job to call in the people who can sort it out. So, let them.

Hang in there.

My mum wrote to the GP with a list of issues (heart failure, hearing, etc.). She (the GP) didn't seem very interested in addressing it from what I've seen.

Ask for her older person's health check. Annual, from age 75 (I've just googled it) Tell them she's falling and family are not coping.

Don't write, call them. Or, even better, go when you are In Charge of Gran.

This situation is a disaster waiting to happen. Phone the GP.

They probably can't admit this to themselces, but this response means the situation is going to continye till she dies.... which might be this winter, in such a cold house, or being wet (from incontinence) for ages...

"tell your parents and sister that you have a young family and cannot contribute to elderly care."..."they've got nothing going on".

Of course not - why, they're not even human without a brace of kids to justify their existence.

To be honest, women who hold this sort of attitude aren't much good at being carers anyway - you need brains, compassion, energy and some mgt skills.

Oh dear seems a tough one.

Can't she have some nurses to help her? from social services?.

you cannot be expected to match your childless sister that's ridiculous.

IME they won't do anything while family are stepping in. You all need to officially withdraw from her care (although unofficially you can still help) . You will need to be assertive and persistent. While there is family caring for her they will drag their feet indefinitely.

Perhaps if your family stay out of it , that will be better. Make out you have been the main carer and that obviously you can't continue with the kids/long distance etc. Make out you are becoming ill yourself with the stress of it all, and she will be on her own totally soon, if they don't sort something out before you go under.

Good luck. You are still doing the right thing but it does look like it's down to you to sort it all out.

How old are your parents OP? and why are you not speaking to your mother as it is her mother, not your fathers, who is in need here.

Make that phone call to the Gp now so that he can refer you to SS, with a few to seeing them during the time you are there in half term. Doesn't matter about the kids being around. That will strengthen your case.

i'm not sure about the renovations. Workmen in her home will worry Gma. The mess and who will stay with her whilst it's all going on? Sorry but I think it's time for a home.

If you do decide on carers coming in a few times a day, then exaggerate her difficulties and her needs a bit for the assessment.

corygal You're a bit of a bitch aren't you? I'm glad you're not my mum/sister/boss/neighbour.

Op, I was impressed with your last post, until I got towards the end then realised that your comment "I need to commit to going their with the kids there for the second half of next week, to compete with my virtuous sister, and to store up some goodwill" means you've once again been guilt-tripped into committing to the next weekend, and competing with your sister!

Don't do it! Withdraw from this arrangment and tell them you can't and won't commit to it and you need an urgent family discussion. It is tremendously unfair on your DH and DCs.

OP: Definitely phone the GP. Phone Social Services. Start shouting very loudly and flag waving to get some attention from them. Your GM should not be in this position because your parents are lax.

Are you seriously saying your 100 year old grandmother is defecating into a plastic bag? Really?

I find this utterly shocking.

Is there an elderly equivalent to Child protection at social services?

If you tell social services this, won't they step in and do something?

Surely a few weeks respite in a care home is a start?

This is ludicrous. The poor lady is shitting in bags. Call social services.