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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be not entirely keen to look after my Grandma

488 replies

StWinifred · 12/10/2012 02:19

My Grandma is 100 years old and rather debilitated, although fully compos mentis.

She was being looked after her by her son, who had lived with her for decades. He had a heart attack in the 1980s and I think the strain of looking after his Mum did for him, and he suffered a fatal heart attack in July.

Since then my parents has been looking after her, in her home, which is a largely original 1930s house.

She went to stay with my parents in their own home (an hour or so away) for a few days a month or so ago. She found this a bit disorienting but they were grateful to get home; this was curtailed when she had to go back home for medical appointment.

A few weeks ago my parents wanted to go away so they asked if I could help, I said she can stay here (in our hours for a week), but there's no way I can go there because of various prearranged commitments locally, school, etc. They didn't think this was a good idea.

My sister proposes early on that she should stay in her home as she has been in the area since birth. My sister has been with her partner (she doesn't believe in marriage I think) for a decade and has no children (doesn't believe in this either). Her idea was that we (my parents, my sister, and I), should look after her a couple of days per week each.

Due to work/childcare I can only do this over the weekend. Last weekend I headed there at 6pm (takes about 1hr 45 to get there) on Saturday and got back home at 5:30pm on Monday to pick up the kids from school. My sister was there from 6pm Monday till 8am Wednesday, working from home Tuesday, and I think planning to on Wednesday also in future, though she had a meeting on Wednesday so left early - in future she might be there until afternoon/evening though.

My father said he thinks I shouldn't go every week on Saturday as it would be disruptive to our family. I haven't made any commitments.

Anyway he called on Tuesday to ask what time I was coming on Sunday, and I said I didn't know I will let you know at the end of the week. He called me today at 11:30pm to ask the same, sorry I don't know, does it make any difference? Well we were thinking of going away for a couple of days, he said. Oh really?

He then sent me a rather nagging email saying they would appreciate a routine, and also could you come round and stay with the kids during half term to balance your sister's 'input'? (My DH has work to go to, locally, so it would be me + kids.)

I replied saying sorry I can't give you a routine after only one visit there, it ain't routine yet, and I'm not about to promise to match my sister, what she does is what she can do, and she's got her circumstances and she mine, and actually I didn't really feel the house was suitable for kids when I was there.

Grandma can't make it up the stairs, so she sleeps in the living room, and there's no toilet down stairs, so there's a commode there. She's got severe incontinence so lots of pads to dispose of, plus the commode to empty. She tends to fall over and she can't be left alone at home for more than about 2 hours. She needs her breakfast, lunch, dinner prepared, plus tea, drinks, etc.

They've been in this house for nearly 3 months now and they have no bed, just two very old 'small single' mattresses on the floor. Apparently they ordered a bed from Homebase but it takes 3 weeks or something? Anyway, I thought this was ridiculous, so when I was there on Saturday I went to a local shop and they said they could deliver a bed on Wednesday. Passed this information on to my father and apparently he couldn't get through to them on the phone, so er, still no bed for me to sleep on this weekend.

There's another empty bedroom for the kids (but no bed) but the window frame is rotten and there's a hole in the window.

My DH doesn't like this arrangement at all, and thinks Grandma should go live with my parents, and that it's their responsibility to look after their mother.

My father OTOH seems to think that its our collective responsibility (the four of us being her only direct descendants), and on that basis I should tell him what I'm doing and when, and not only that but try and 'make up' days that I haven't done (when compared with my sister) because childcare in the week is not practical.

I have told him several times that my DH is not really happy about the situation/disruption to family life (e.g., last Monday and foreseeably all future Mondays was disrupted because I had to get up at 7am to give Grandma her breakfast, after she was up till 00:45 watching TV the night before, and then I had to cycle 12 miles to get to the station to get home, and was way too knackered to cook a meal for the family, or to work with my DS on his 11+ preparation), but rather than taking the attitude that 'you are helping out, thank you very much', it seems to be more a case of 'why aren't you doing more'.

I am not really sure if IABU to be resentful of this attitude.

My parents have never told me what they are doing in advance, they will just do it on the day, and I have followed their lead, so if they want to know for instance what we are doing in half-term, I will tell them the day before, because that's when I will know myself. If they want to go away or something, then give me the dates and I will try and help, but it seems like they just want to go and do some gardening at home, ok well you don't need two weeks notice for that do you, and actually perhaps you can get a bloody bed in before I come round again.

OP posts:
BackOnceAgainWithLoopyLoops · 18/10/2012 16:22

xposts

StWinifred · 18/10/2012 16:31

Deux, I don't know exactly what she does, and I don't like to ask, obviously.

She has incontinence knickers, plus incontinence pads, and a commode.

There are also some sort of large nappy sacks.

I have to empty the commode, but it's always just urine, I don't think she likes to leave shit in there to clean up. The shit is in a bag, I think on a pad but I am not inspecting it.

I don't quite know if she shits onto the pad in the commode, if she shits herself and then tries to clean it up, or what. I mean you can use your imagination I suppose.

It's obviously not a reasonable state of affairs either way.

OP posts:
oldraver · 18/10/2012 16:34

I was just going to ask what Deux has..... your Gran is shitting in a bag ? No this cant go on, I would phone GP immediately and ask for your Gran to be referred to Adult Social Care. Have you spelt it out out your Dad that she is shitting in a bag ?

Deux · 18/10/2012 16:39

Maybe you do need to ask! Isn't that the trouble with this whole situation.

You all seem to be pussyfooting around and nothing is changing, no one is taking charge. You need a leader.

Sounds horribly grim and undignified.

What about saying to your parents, if adequate care arrangements aren't in place by XXXXX, I'm complaining to social services that granny is suffering from neglect and I don't care how you feel about it.

Mayisout · 18/10/2012 17:03

Well, we got social services round to see what my mum was capable of, then a occupational therapist for special raised chairs etc. But the problem with it is that they (unbelievably stupidly imo) would ask DM what she could do and according to her she could make a cup or tea and heat up her evening meal when in fact she could do neither.

Just telling you that, OP, so that your are prepared for your DGM to tell them what they want to hear, so you need to be there when they visit to make it clear how unhygienic, unsafe etc the situation is. I think any SS person will think that immediate changes need to be made in your DGM's arrangement when they see it and will hopefully come up with something. But make sure it is you who is there and not any other useless family member.

Also phone GP and don't start all this 'well the family is doing what we can' bullshit, say 'DGM is doubly incontinent, has no toilet or washing facilities, no social life, risk bedsores etc from urine soaked pads......', and even if YOU think she is compos mentis believe me she probably will not come over that way to others, so if they think she has a degree of dementia all to the good, there is more chance of them sorting out her accommodation etc.

I was always convinced that my mother was quite with it but didn't realise how much effort I put into repeating things slowly and loudly and enunciating things and using simple vocab that I knew she would understand. In fact with GPs etc she appeared (and in some ways was) quite confused.

WelshMaenad · 18/10/2012 17:43

So £6/hour Carers lack empathy but you can't even be bothered to find out why she's pooing into a bag?

shewhowines · 18/10/2012 17:48

I don't think SS will worry about the use of a commode or incontinence pads. Lots of old folk use these if they can't use the stairs to get to their bathroom. However, it is a different matter if you say that there is nobody there to change pads/empty and clean the commode.

Mayisout · 18/10/2012 18:04

Yes, good point shewhowines.

This has got all tied up with which family member cares the most instead of what DGM needs. What a useless bunch (sorry OP)

gussiegrips · 18/10/2012 22:40

St W - at the risk of repeating myself...

Your Grandmother is falling. That is an emergency.

If she falls and breaks her hip and lies there for hours until someone finds her by which time she's got pnuemonia and pressure sores, is hypothermic and terrified...well, you don't need to be a geriatrician to figure out the ending to that story.

Phone the GP. I appreciate it's a difficult thing to "go above" your family's heads - but it is an emergency. The peeing and pooing and house and all that stuff are serious issues, butthey are not going to kill her.

Please, please, please call the GP. Or, give me her details and I'll call the GP. Or, post them on here and we'll ALL call the GP.

Wingedharpy · 19/10/2012 02:31

It's Social Services she needs as from what's been said, she's not ill (yet) but just requires some assistance with daily living activities.
This thread was started a week ago and almost everyone who has responded has been saying more or less the same thing OP - you need professional intervention/assessment of this situation - but nothing has changed in this week.
In fact, from what you indicate, nothing has changed in the 3 months since your poor Uncle shuffled off this mortal coil.
YOU DON'T NEED ANYONE'S PERMISSION - RING SOCIAL SERVICES. YOUR GRANNY IS A VULNERABLE ADULT. DO IT FOR HER SAKE.

myBOYSareBONKERS · 19/10/2012 07:20

Op - so you are going to continue going to care for her ??

Therefore why do your parents need to sort anything out if she is still being Looked after?

I feel that you are enabling them not to get anything in place by going to her.

Also stop trying to match your sister - sibling competitiveness should of ceased as children

nannyl · 19/10/2012 07:43

YANBU

there are plenty of care people who she can pay to look after her

(typing as today i arrange an old peoples care home for my 61 year old father)

he needs 24 hours care, i have a baby and live 250miles away, my sister works all the hours god sends in the city.... for the past few years he has been having carers coming to him, but now its getting beyond that.... yes my sister lives around the corner, but i dont for a millisecond expect her to do it, and being 5 hours drive away i cant either.

Lemonylemon · 19/10/2012 11:42

I repeat my previous post, and what everyone else has said.

YOU NEED TO CALL SOCIAL SERVICES.

cumfy · 19/10/2012 12:52

Winifred you are fighting the good fight, but you are not seeing the wood for the trees.

Your gran needs to be in a good care home for her last few years.
She will make friends and live a good life.

You will feel so much better when you have done this.
You can't let your miserly father dictate matters.

Pick up the phone ....

smalltown · 19/10/2012 13:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bonsoir · 19/10/2012 13:14

This is completely crazy: the lives of all your family are totally disrupted to provide 24/7 care for your grandmother, who, by the sounds of it, is living in squalid conditions?

gussiegrips · 20/10/2012 18:40

small Oh, we don't have any applications - it's open to anyone who understands that being in your 80s is no barrier to behaving as badly as you like.

Happily, the young male carers are not so young for us to have a touch of the Jimmy Sovile about us. They are all desperately handsome, just flirty enough to make us giggle and don't mind us having the odd accidental fart as we go past with our zimmer frames.

Gin's on tap - but it's cocktails on Fridays. Tattooist comes once a month. And, none of the booze has a detrimental affect on our medication.

Must start looking after my health properly so I can make sure I live to a grand old age - am expecting to blossom around the 85ish mark.

expatinscotland · 20/10/2012 18:50

'I tried to get him to agree that the situation was not only bad for us but also bad for him too. He didn't entirely go along with this, it was very much 'I can see that this is difficult for you, no you're not being unreasonable to say if that's how it is.', without ever quite saying that I was right that the arrangement itself is wrong. He was agreeing with everything I said but on a 'yes that's the way you feel' kind of way.

I said that the toilet situation was unreasonable, and he said well he didn't think from what she'd said Grandma wanted major changes made. I asked if they had actually gone as far as getting an actual 'we'll do this, this and this' from a builder, and putting that to her. No, I didn't think so, it was just a vague 'major renovations' suggestion.

When I said 'I don't think you'd be spending 3 days a week from there really, you need to separate your social obligations from Grandma's care needs', he said 'well it's better than what we were doing before'.

I talked about getting a live-in carer, an old lady or something, or finding an apartment thing locally, and he said 'well we hadn't considered that before, we just thought she would stay there with us, come back to our house, or this arrangement sharing care'.'

St, when are you going to get this through your head: your father is a miser and your mother enables this behaviour.

They are using you to cheap out and not pay for the care your grandmother needs, right now, and can buy with her money.

By continuing to enable your parents, you are all failing your grandmother!

STOP IT!

Call SS now.

Corygal · 20/10/2012 20:22

Who doesn't agree with the post above?

Yr DF has probably counted out his inheritance already - there's nothing partic weird about that, but point blank refusing to do household repairs to make the place habitable and demanding the family look after GM to save him money is not acceptable. I don't reckon she is safe to be left alone either.

I'd put it like that to him. These situations get worse if you don't speak calmly and candidly, as the naughty one gets away with it precisely because of that.

If GM is falling, you need to get her into a home quick, or your DF will have more than a bit of idle greed on his conscience.

Roseformeplease · 20/10/2012 21:01

When I expressed concern about my mother's ability to care for her own father (she is an alcoholic) to my own GP, the GP said that SS would get involved, if asked, and sort something out over her head. Fortunately, I do not have to go down this line in the end as he died (NOT her fault) a week later. However, the point is, SS will get involved and will sort things out. If she were a child you would not put up with her living in such squalid conditions. You have to go over their heads and do something. This is not acceptable in the 21st century and you must not allow it to continue. You are complicit in this abuse (and it IS abuse) and must make sure that it stops.

Please take some action. This will show your love for you GM, not leaving your family every weekend and endless discussions with your Dad.

alcazar · 20/10/2012 21:02

*St, when are you going to get this through your head: your father is a miser and your mother enables this behaviour.

They are using you to cheap out and not pay for the care your grandmother needs, right now, and can buy with her money.

By continuing to enable your parents, you are all failing your grandmother!

STOP IT!

Call SS now.*

What expat said!! The care that you and your family think they are proving is NOT good enough for your grandmother. Why havent you suggested using the money she has to get proper,consistent care? Arrange a meeting with social services with your family and discuss how they can and WILL be able to support you all. You need to get tough OP, you sound lovely but you all seems to be politely tiptoeing round each other, this needs sorting out now!

expatinscotland · 20/10/2012 21:08

'my parent's own toilet does not flush (broken)
my parent's own bathroom does not lock (broken)
they had an ancient TV until I bought them a flat panel for Christmas
their oven is rotting and falling apart
they had no microwave until I bought them a combi-oven (partly in view of the oven situation) for Christmas

So the chances of them actually changing the status quo in terms of Grandma's care by themselves are approximately nil, because they are procastinators, not doers.

So I'm still expected to do this whenever possible for the indefinite future, until I sort out something else. '

No, they are misers. Your father is a miser and your mother either is one herself or so used to living with someone like this she puts up with it.

They don't have money for basics like a washing machine or a flushing loo, but they go off on holiday?

The ONLY thing you need to sort out is to call SS and inform them there is an elderly lady who is being denied proper care even though she has the means to purchase it.

Gingerodgers · 20/10/2012 21:18

I have not read the whole thread, but in my experience, family's can fall out, never to speak again over this type of thing. If you value yours, don't let this happen. Is there a local elderly day hospital close by that she could attend a couple of days a week? I know my gran went to one, and to be honest, it was the only time she left the house. She was stimulated, medically and mentally assessed there, and meds were monitored. They also made sure she ate! Given that this would not solve the problem, but at least reduce the workload, it might be worth investigating. Good luck, I know this is very stressful, but as someone mentioned earlier, you may regret not making her final years as good as they can be, but if everyone is resenting their input, then I dare say she will detect this anyway.

expatinscotland · 20/10/2012 21:25

They are not procrastinators or non-doers if they organise these holidays and days away. Hmm

They're skinflints who know you'll enable them (buying them a combi-oven, organising Granny's care, etc).

You're probably used to this, they've been this way a long time.

But we're seeing this objectively, mostly, and StW, they don't come off sounding good here.

gussiegrips · 06/11/2012 11:29

St Win how are things? Hope all is settling down and the family stress has calmed.