if you voted for the Tories, you should feel personally responsible when you see homeless people on the streets ...

[aufaniae]

...once their policies start to bite.

They want to removing housing benefit for under 25s, many of whom have children. Just one of their policies which will drive people into homelessness.

I thought this was meant to be a civilised country. If the safety net is removed, many people including children will fall through it, some of them ending up on the streets.

How can anyone support that?

londonone i would not worry the left insist there is no such thing as " fecless breeders" so i am not sure what all the fuss is about i know one is having children they cant afford amd there are no familes with 3 and 4 workless genrations then whats the issue

OP, i was unaware that those with children would be effected, but to be honest i'm not surprised.

i am sick to death of these tory twats and their policies that will fuck you over unless you are a high earner.

i don't understand why anyone would vote for them unless they were on very good money and felt that those who weren't in a similar position were just lazy.

labour had its flaws, we know that, but atleast they thought about the working class people in this country.

Not what I said actually. I think it is unlikely that those age 25 and under would be financially stable enough to afford children, I also said that having further children whilst on benefits is irresponsible. I think benefits should be there as a safety net for times of unemployment etc, not as a way of supporting people in having children that their wages can't support.

Perhaps those very high earners living in council houses should think about giving them up to somebody more in need. People can be very selfish when it comes to their own circumstances.

RabbitsMakeGOLDEgg I'm so sorry to hear you're in this position and are being forced to consider risking your health

Do you know what will happen after November 12th? Have you been in contact with anyone like Shelter? (They take forever to get through to, but they are very helpful IME).

Domestic - scroungers, feckless breeders. You do like your emotive language don't you. So does that mean you were perhaps exaggerating slightly about the void facing us all? To answer your question,if you were already receiving tax credits for your first child, then IMO you shouldn't have had another.

Is it not a case of having the number of children you can afford!
We have 2 would love 3 but can't afford them. We don't have benefits and both work for a living but things are tight like so many people, it would be a daft decision to have more children in our circumstances. This logic surely is sound and should be the same for everyone, having children is great but not a right and the tax payer should not be left to foot the bill.

I am seeing Accommodation Concern in my own home, and getting support from the school, our social workers (adult and child), my GP and Homestart. So hopefully things won't be too bad, but already I am running into issues, like my landlady gave me notice, but they can't accept the letter as it isn't a Section 21 Notice and I need the Tenancy Agreement too.

So now I have to wait again until she can sort those before I can even begin the process of being rehoused. And then I can only bid on adapted houses, because the council won't want to go to the expense of adapting one for me, so I am limited. In the meantime, I am concerned about accessing school for the children, and trying to keep their lives as undisrupted as possible with as much continuity as I can, since my DD doesn't cope well with change.

and all those dismembered Iraqi babies.....

I blame you, Labour voter

shut the fxxp up, seriously

Yes and people should think a bit about the future as well. Of course there can always be completely unforeseen catastrophic things that happen. But something like losing your job - that can happen to anyone. So surely you make sure you build up savings, take out insurance, keep your skills and contacts up to date. There are things you can do to make sure you're in a reasonably stable financial situation before deciding to start a family.

Sometimes too much government help is not a good thing, if it stops people thinking for themselves and taking responsibility. It sounds like the nice and kind and fluffy thing to do, but maybe it has gone too far in recent years and is in fact harming the people it's supposed to help.

Ilovecoffeeandchocolate if you deny housing benefit for all under 25s, then it will for real children, who exist right now into homelessness.

Are you comfortable with that?

This is not just about hypothetical children who couples may decide to have - or not- in the future!

Ephiny and how does making children homeless help them?

porcamiseria I protested in the streets against that. Are you protesting against this?

It's easy to complain about being poor etc all those chavs who will get kicked out on their arses and have to stop smoking etc [sarcastic sad]

What a shame... Really my heart jus bleeds.

Maybe the middle classes are sick of working hard to pay for other peoples laziness and fuck-ups??

RabbitsMakeGOLDEggs I hope it works out for you, it must be a very stressful time

Fairyjen I'm not even going to rise to that.

How deeply warped and unpleasant your attitude is. I feel sorry for you tbh.

Fairyjen pathetic, have my first

auf thank you for your sympathy. Shame it's not worth anything or you could save the world!

It might not help them, but handouts may not help long-term either.

It would be nice if there was some magical way of eliminating poverty and need, but there just isn't (that I know of!), and seemingly helpful actions can have unintended consequences. The real world is complicated, and this emotive point-scoring type of debate gets us nowhere IMO.

I speak from experience. My sil is 22 she has 2 dc. She has never worked EVER she is deliberately trying to have more children to get a better house. Would I laugh my ass off she was made homeless. You bet I would! I have worked from 16 to pay for scroungers like her!

I'm a Tory and I agree with londonone. I do wish people would step up to the plate and take a bit of responsibility for themselves.

It never entered my head to think about children until I was about 30, with a career, a property and a happy marriage to support them with. I accepted that I was not in a position to have a family prior to this. We have contraception in this country for free, I used it.

Why is it such a hard concept for others to understand? You only get one go at this life, you may as well make the most of it and at least try and get yourself in a position where it is all fairly easy and comfortable, for your children aswell as yourselves. Noone was giving me money when I had four jobs and worked in seedy nightclubs until 4am, then was at work in a shop at 9am the next morning, to pay my way through university. That's what I was doing aged under 25. Now I'm heading for 40 and a higher rate taxpayer.

And before anyone starts banging on about crystal balls and things happening in the future, I'll say what I've said three times on this forum now, and that's if either of us lost our jobs we could carry on as normal, because we're insured up to the hilt, and I earn as much if not more than dh. It was a tough choice to go back to work when I wanted to stay at home with my Dss, but as a result we've never claimed a penny in tax credits (which I think should be one of the first things to go completely) and are pretty much water tight.

RESPONSIBILITY. Google it.

Homelessness "might not help" children.

No shit!

Making children homeless is not necessary.

It should be something that us as (mostly) mothers in particular should be up in arms about.

Here's where it's all so dotty.

Rabbits is trying to do the right thing and I'd be happy to see her get everything she needs without thinking about the cost too much.

I'd like to slap Fairyjen's sister-in-law. Her selfishness means that the hard-pressed taxpayers get mean about benefits. Who suffers? Rabbits does.

PeppermintLatte
i am sick to death of these tory twats and their policies that will fuck you over unless you are a high earner.

Mm.
That's high payer of income tax, isn't it...

I know, let's bring in wage control. That'll sort it out.
Remind me again, how muck incremental revenue does the 50% tax revenue bring in?

i don't understand why anyone would vote for them unless they were on very good money and felt that those who weren't in a similar position were just lazy.

Possibly low to middle income earners, who saw that part of Brown's great idea was to create a country where people on up to 50k could be on benefits? That saw the overheads on small business and the admin burden increase exponentially (you know, small business, who employ most people), while the payroll vote increased.

People who sat Blair/Brown repeating Bevan's approach with GPs, stuffing their mouths with gold, while ensuring we couldn't get on call doctors.

labour had its flaws, we know that, but atleast they thought about the working class people in this country.

Mmm. Like most parties they mostly thought about how they could get elected again.

grovel I would slap her but she is a big lass and I'm worried she will sit on me!