if you voted for the Tories, you should feel personally responsible when you see homeless people on the streets ...

[aufaniae]

...once their policies start to bite.

They want to removing housing benefit for under 25s, many of whom have children. Just one of their policies which will drive people into homelessness.

I thought this was meant to be a civilised country. If the safety net is removed, many people including children will fall through it, some of them ending up on the streets.

How can anyone support that?

Certainly not you potato! :D

Right, have jimjams on and will definitiely go after this, but I am not lucky.

I had the most hideous childhood through no fault of my parents (terminal illness and then my dad died) and I just got on with it. In fact I am probably the unluckiest person I know irl but I have made the best of the hand I was dealt.

How will things go pear shaped? We lose our jobs, we're insured and have savings. We get ill, well I've been there before with my father and see above, that's how and why I learned to make everything as water tight as possible.

I'm not smug, I just got a grip and don't see why others can't. If 'my luck' as you call it ever does 'run out' I will not blame anybody else because I am a responsible adult. Why would I? And why would I not be happy with the life I have? At least it's all my own doing and I don't owe anything to anyone, apart from one very small mortgage!!

Yes of course domestoc I forgot being happy was a cardinal sin on mn. And that to be happy means you upset all the people who aren't.
I have had periods of despair and depression. I never begrudged anyone else happiness.

Your snidey comments are so passive aggressive and condescending. And yet you say others are. That doesn't make for a happy person, being so unaware of yourself.

Anyway I am off to bed, school run, meeting,lunch with dh tomorrow. Don't want to be knackered.
Sorry I forgot I can't have a good day or be happy. Its not allowed is it.

Doesn't matter the shit I pulled myself out of, I must learn. Some people can't stand others to be happy.

Oh and when I say I am going, I actually do.
:)

therose You have been lucky to be born in a fab country where you have been able to do well for yourself.

It really is all luck.

I recommend Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell.

I only read up to page thirteen, so apologise if I am repeating things here, but regarding housing benefit for under 25s: I had my first son at 22. This was not planned, but I was in the fortunate position of having (just, my son is an August baby!) completed my degree. My parents, who again I'm fortunate in, helped to support me and my partner as we did PGCEs the next academic year (yes, we really did do that course beginning when ds1 was 8 weeks old, only possible because of my parents' support with babysitting and some financial help).

We have been fortunate enough to have worked continuously in teaching since then and not had to claim any state assistance. BUT, what if our son had turned out to have disabilities which meant one of us couldn't work? What if we had no parents to help, my partner's parents couldn't as it was? What if, in the twelve years since, one or other or both of us had lost our jobs for whatever reason?

I have never claimed state assistance to support my child; now I have two children having had a baby three months ago, and am returning to work the week after next,work I'm really lucky to have.

If under 25s are not able to support themselves, as londonone I think suggested, we're the proof they can and do, but things could have gone wrong SO easily in those first few years especially, (and still could!) and not because of our ages. So this 25 and under limit is ridiculous, IMHO.

OP Your thread has made me wonder about the situation of a 23yo couple with 2 DCs who had to become part of someone elses household as a result of this policy. Would they or their DCs be classed as dependants of the householder (could be an older relative but might be a friend with a spare room) if so would that person be assessed as needing the size of housing or LHA appropriate to a much larger household?

There is no avoiding new red tape whether there is an exception made to the 'no HB under 25' rule for multiple 'deserving' circumstances or a need to redefine household composition for eg a 55yo in a 2 bed council home who takes in a family of 4 - will they still be classed as underoccupying?

The rationale behind Universal Credit is partially about simplifying an over complex system but it seems likely an at least equally complex system is going to grow up around it (HB will be part of UC).

Whether the new system is generous or mean it could become very complicated very quickly.

not-OP I don't know all the complex rules about childcare and what counts as income or employing someone but I hope noone is putting their relative at risk by giving them a 'gift' equivalent to the cost of part time childcare instead of wages if it should be declared as income to HMRC and NI/taxed accordingly?

After the Icelandic bank disasters etc I worry that an insurance policy might not pay out and savings might vanish - I hope you have a plan B

Disclaimer, as it always seems to come up, yes I do claim child benefit, but no other benefits including tax credits.

Insurance policies quite frequently do not pay out.

If they decide your condition is 'chronic' or 'pre-existing'; if it can be deemed to be 'psychological'- your sickness benefits will not be paid out or will be time-limited regardless of whether you're still too ill to work.

I know a surgeon to whom this happened. He developed severe sleep apnoea to the extent that it was affecting his balance and coordination in the daytime. He was clearly a risk to his patients at this point, and decided he could no longer work. His GP, hospital consultants and employers agreed.

His insurance company did not. Cue a 7 year battle in which he lost his home and the remainder of his health, and his teenage daughters found themselves going out to work in call centres too support their parents.

Insurance companies, much like Atos, do not actually use real medical evidence in their assessments. They employ dubiously qualified 'medical professionals' (as Atos does) to be their assessors. And of course the main aim of a profit-making body is to stop people claiming, not to help them. Simple common sense.

So yes, the smugsters who think it will never happen to them are utterly deluded. Bless em.

@ sookie, well I'm certainly pretty well aware that arrogant, aggressive (nothing passive about your aggression is there, so I guess that's ok?) and judgemental people like you piss me off immensely. No doubt about it in my 'passive aggressive' little mind :D.

Hope you slept the sleep of the morally just. Happy, happy, happy!! Cos you're better than everyone else, aren't you?

Ugh.

And er, I went and came back cos this car crash thread drew me like a bad horror film. So sue me.

Maybe it won't be quite what they were hoping for, but they won't necessarily be on the street. I thought they were saying that they shouldn't expect to get a flat of their own. Students have shared for years - my son is currently doing that - there's no way we could afford to fund a whole flat for him.

Under 25s (unless they have shildren, or are caring for a disabled relative) already have to share.

The majority of them are also working.

When your son leaves uni, he will be job hunting. I have no idea where you live or the course your son is on, but lets say you live in a rural area and he finds a job in London. For the forst 6 months it is minimum wage, after that it goes up to a decent sallary. He cannot afford to rent a room on minimum wage. At the moment he could get housing benefot for that 6 months.

Under the new system he would be moving back home with you, and if he can't find a local job then tough.

Cathy had you not had parental support available then it would have been rather irresponsible to continue with your unplanned pregnancy.

Sash - there is no reason why a single young person on minimum wage can't afford to lodge with a family for 6 months. It may be a stretch but it's entirely possible. Friends of ours have a lodger who doesn't pay a vast amount

Wow, this thread has moved on a bit...

It's good to hear that a lot of people have put plans into place for a rainy day (savings, income protection etc) and I am one of those people. However, it doesn't make me naive enough to think that's the case for everyone. Insurance costs a fair amount and a lot of people don't have spare cash to pay into their pensions, let alone save. It's all very well to say you should have done this or that, but the reality is that a large number of people haven't. Whether this is of their own doing or not, the fact remains that there a people out there who don't have this back up and by default neither do their children.

I have worked hard all my life and have back up plans in place, but I'm not stupid enough to think I'm immune. Insurance doesn't pay out forever (not any that I've seen anyway!) and savings get whittled down pretty quickly. Some may survive longer than others but the end result will be the same for us all if we can't get back into work.

There's a lot to be said for planning and being proud that we've made provision for ourselves in the future. There's also a lot to be said for having some humility too and a little thought for others.

londonone So you are saying women that find themselves accidently pregnant should have an abortion based on their financial problems?

londonone are you really from London? It's extremely hard to find affordable housing in London, even lodging with a family.

I am from London and have always found this to be the case. A friend of mine is searching for a shared room and is finding it really difficult. Every place she goes for, she's up against 20 or so others, and so it is essentially a popularity contest when you're talking about shared accommodation.

My friend is young, intelligent, articulate, friendly, very beautiful, and has good landlord references. If she's losing the popularity contest that is shared housing then it must be very difficult indeed for those who are not great with people or good at giving a first impression and lack good references.

pumpkin he does seem to be saying that.

I find his attitudes very unpleasant indeed tbh, totally lacking in compassion.

Yes pumpkin I am. Aufanie I am from London and don't know anyone who has ever struggled to find a flat or house share. Why don't you put your money or comfort where your mouth is and let your friend stay with you a while.

Aufanie why do you think I am a man?

You must live in a different London to me. It has always been my experience that it's hard to find affordable accommodation.

I no longer live in London. But anyway, my friend needs somewhere to live, not a sofa to doss on.

Would a sofa not be preferable to a street corner or am I missing the point?

londonone If you are indeed a man cannot be advising abortion because you will never experience pregnancy or the emotion it brings!
It isn't just "get rid off it", it must be thought through and doing it for financial reasons may not be the right choice for some women!

Of course, god forbid that your friend should only have a sofa to sleep on temporarily. Quick get her some housing benefit lest she should suffer any discomfort or inconvenience. Maybe that's the difference between my friends and yours many of my friends sofa surfed for a while but you would obviously view that ad beyond the pale.

Good question, I don't know why I think you're a man. It was a subconscious assumption. Let me think ...

I guess most (but not all) of the people I've met who have totally lacked compassion and empathy for others have been men.

Suggesting things like young women having abortions if they don't have family support is spectacularly uncaring for example.

Not that I'm saying men in general are uncaring - far from it. I think most people have empathy and compassion. However those individuals I have happened to come across who have displayed such a staggering lack of empathy as you have done on this thread have mainly been men. I'm not saying this is indicative of men in general, it has just been my subjective experience. I guess it is this which made me assume you're a man.

Was I wrong then?

Lol pumpkin, once again spectacularly missing the point. Have you also decided I am a man for your own convenience! Sorry to burst your bubble but I am a woman.

And yes Aufanie, you're wrong and it appears as prone as anybody else to wild generalisations!