if you voted for the Tories, you should feel personally responsible when you see homeless people on the streets ...

[aufaniae]

...once their policies start to bite.

They want to removing housing benefit for under 25s, many of whom have children. Just one of their policies which will drive people into homelessness.

I thought this was meant to be a civilised country. If the safety net is removed, many people including children will fall through it, some of them ending up on the streets.

How can anyone support that?

Remember Liam Byrne's note to Denis Laws?

"Dear chief secretary, I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left".

That's why you are all moaning about the Government.

The truth is that whatever Government was in power now the result would be much the same in terms of spending cuts.

Personally I wish Labour had got in. Then they would have had to shovel up their own shit.

The same thing happened after Labour's little sortie in the 1970s - Callaghan being rescued by the IMF, winter of discontent etc. leading to Thatcher.

Each time massive Labour fuck-up then Tories get all the opprobrium after being landed with economic disaster.

And I'm not even a Tory.....

The cruellest thing politicians can do is to give out unsustainable benefits so that future governments have to take them back.

Brown was wicked in that respect.

The op is a bit badly worded. I think she was trying to use Tory personal responsibility rhetoric against them but it backfired because of course each voter is not responsible for all the vile actions of a government.

grimble I remember that. The bastard. Its all a big joke to a test like that.

The truth is labour had no clue. Ed Balls even admitted that the plan they had, if they had got back in, wouldn't have worked. The point is the KNEW they were not getting anywhere near so had a plan that sounded ace, but wouldn't work as they would never use it.

The same as they won't commit to saying they will reverse spending cuts or even that they wouldn't have done the same.

Its All bollocks. All of them. I have no idea who i will vote for atm. But i promise, since i have had quite a bit to do with Ed Balls i shall not be voting to but him anywhere near being charge. He is rubbish at his job and HE speaks to his constituents like they are stupid.

He has told me the exact opposite of what his wife said at the conference regarding the ipcc. So either he is a liar or has no idea what his wife and collegue opinion is not that of his leader. I haven't decided yet.

grovel is right. Labour gave put benefits not because he cared, but because it made him look generous

Problem was that his financial plan was unsustainable. I remember back in about 2001 when brown said that by the next budget we would have a spare 200 million pound (could have been more) by the time it came, there was no spare. Because 'someone had worked it out wrong'. You can't tell me that that is acceptable or a good way to run a country.

I blame Labour for not putting some money aside, during the good times. LABOUR are resposible for a rise in the number of homeless people as a result of necessary austerity measures.

I voted Tory and would again. Labour just bought votes by throwing money at people that we didnt have. Voters are not responsible for the actions of others just their own actons.

If an under 25 wants their own place, then they pay for it. If they need state help, then an allowance to houseshare is more than sufficient.

Parents are responsible for their children, nobody else. Theres no mention that parents fall under the new HB rule but why let that stop people saying it.

I haven't seen any evidence that parents are going to be affected by the new rule. Why not wait and see what the details of the proposal are before sounding off about how evil we all are?

I hope that everyone who voted Labour since 97 feels personally responsible for crippling the nation with PFI debt for generations, mismanaging bank regulation and creating the conditions where decisions like this have to be taken.

Duh. Parents are sort of likely to be affected by their adult children being made homeless unless they move back in with them.

As if the Tories haven't sold out the nation to private finance.

The more I read this sort of thread the more I realise that party politics is part of the problem. They're all basically the same now with minor ideological variations. One side takes everything bad that happened during a certain term, strips it entirely of context, then ignores the blatant fact that their party would have done/is doing the exact same thing. Eg vote for war, hand over state assets to private sector at stupid cost to state.

I voted Conservative and will again in the hope that someone will stop paying out money to people left right and centre. You are all whining about losing money, mo e

Sorry - money which you are not earning.

Why should there not be a cap on benefits? Why shouldn't people be given a reason to go to work and strive for something for them self rather than be 'entitled' to money for nothing.

The safety net has become a way of life for so many it makes me sick.

Well, I didn't vote Tory and I'm still going to feel responsible. I still can't quite believe they are going to go through with these proposals and the potential impact in terrifying. I don't know what else to do apart from try and support the charities who are going to have to pick up the pieces. That and vote the bastards out when the time comes.

Tailtwister you say the financial impact is terrifying. Well the total collapse of the economy is even more terrifying.

HappyMummyOfOne "If they need state help, then an allowance to houseshare is more than sufficient."

You are talking about the current rules.

The new rules will take away any rent allowance at all for under 25s, and it would appear that it's applicable even to under 25s with children.

I quite agree Vivienne and so is the prospect of families with young children being forced onto the streets. It's all very well to say that money has to be saved, but take it from those who can afford it. Yes, let's get people back into work but make sure the jobs exist first. Put a workable infrastructure in place before you pull the financial rug out from underneath people.

"The op is a bit badly worded. I think she was trying to use Tory personal responsibility rhetoric against them."

I'll confess - I think it's stretching an argument to say that every voter is personally responsible for every action that their party takes while in government.

But I posted as I think people need to be aware that they have voted for a government which plans to make thousands of children homeless, and I wanted to know how comfortable Tory voters really were with that idea.

I was trying to get people to have a think about the effects of Tory policies. I am fed up with hearing the government spout rhetoric about responsibilities when their own policies will be responsible for pushing thousands into poverty and homelessness. I do think they need to take responsibility for this. And voters should be aware of what they're voting for.

It's interesting that the wars in Afganistan and Iraq were brought up as examples as many of us protested against them. We did at least try to make our voices heard on these issues.

I will be out protesting against the Tories' plans on October 20th, will you? If you're not protesting against these policies youself, please don't use Iraq as an example as the analogy doesn't stand.

"I haven't seen any evidence that parents are going to be affected by the new rule."

The only exception I can find which Cameron has been reported as considering is for care-leavers.

If they plan on making an exception for families they sure are keeping quiet about it.

Tory policies to date have been disproportionately bad for families and worse of all for single parents. Why would this be any different?

I will be out protesting if i can get there, where is it? I live quite far from London, im assuming it will be there?
Whatever the wrongs or rights, our children will be the ones suffering.
There's no point saying "you shouldn't have had kids" as our dcs are now here in this world and should be protected from poverty whether it is our fault is irrelevent as it's our dcs that will ultimitely suffer and u wouldn't like to see any child without a home.
Take a stand now people, like i said earlier you never know whats around the corner and jobs are not safe forever even the most highest paid!

There's no point saying "you shouldn't have had kids" as our dcs are now here in this world and should be protected from poverty whether it is our fault is irrelevent as it's our dcs that will ultimitely suffer and u wouldn't like to see any child without a home.

Yes, dear, and it's your job to make sure you dc don't 'suffer' or have you not quite grasped that yet?

Exactly pumpkin. I do get a general sense in some circles that nothing will ever happen to them. Well, none of us are immune unless we have huge amounts of savings and even the, savings can run out. We are all responsible to ensure our young people are protected and provided for.

So you only care about your own children then rose? What about children who aren't lucky enough to have parents who can care for them financially. Do we just forget they exist?

Just exactly where does everyone think this endless pot of cash is coming from to support this section of society? If the Tories or any current govt were not trying to reduce the deficit we would be likely to lose our triple A credit rating. What does that mean? It means we could no longer afford to keep borrowing money to support the UK. Like any household, if you're spending more than you make you've got a problem. This is exactly where we are right now. Cuts have to be made whether people like it or not.

Thats the point there it may be my job, but if i cannot provide especially with the current job market, why should children suffer?
I always thought Great Britain cared about it's children.

Tailtwister it's not that I don't care, they're just not my responsibility, oh look, there's that word again.

Pumpkin why exactly can you not provide for your own children? Serious question btw.