To think that the British work is insidious

[Silibilimili]

And petty and full of cronies...

Just that.

I don't recognise any of this at all - the only people consistently overlooked at our place are the ones who never stop bloody moaning, resist change and have an inflated sense of their own worth.

ade, I moan but try and change things. I don't thjnk I am better than all but certainly better than some. I welcome change. So, where does that put me?

It depends on the culture of the office. I have known unqualified secretaries scamper up the greasy pole very very quickly (very naively I thought it was because she must have been talented ans well-liked). When she left all the men talked about how she wanted to sleep with them all - then I was told that she was having an affair with the boss. She was very self promoting 'look at meeee, I'm fabulous!!' Very self confident but didn't have a tufty really. Emperors new clothes syndrome!

Most places I have work have had a bad reputation in the industry for being really horrible places to work. One place had a reputation for being great and I loved it - there was such a lack of politics!

I go into quite a few organisations as part of my job and it's amazing the variety of business cultures that exist. Few I would want to be part of too. For me slef employment or small business works best.

front, I have seen that too here. It's natures way. It's a part of office life. The sexual tensions, prettier women doing better than the uglier ones, the taller men doing better than the shorter ones. That's Darwinian theory.
I just need to be more thick skinned and less sensitive, more controlled I suppose. It is going to be tricky? Any women out there who are emotional and are doing well in their careers?

This thread has indeed been insightful for me too. Thank you all for the contribution.

Don't whinge, Sili. Whingers and sulkers don't win.

Sorry that should have had a !

Brycie totally agree with you.

I tend to think that those who deny it have done it ..so they see others as whingers and moaners rather than "actors". The thinking goes, well I did it, why can't you instead of moaning on. And I've been promoted, so I can't possibly be incompetent or a bad manager. It's a mindset, and you have to buy it!

bry, can you expand a little more. Explain a little more of your last post please.

About the people who deny it? or the whinging and moaning.

By whinging and moaning, quite frankly I don't blame you, I've done it myself, but it doesn't buy you promotion. It basically says "I am unhappy but impotent". That's not the impression you want to give.

And by those who deny it, i mean those people who say, this does not happen, you are paranoid. Yes, it does, it's almost universal, and you are not paranoic. People who say that have climbed the greasy pole or are doing it and will see others as weak, impotent, whingers and so on.

Yes. Agree with both your posts.

There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism - noticing that something isn't working and suggesting an improvement or a better way of working.

But some people - and I am not suggesting that this is you btw, I don't know you - really do just moan. About everything. Even the stuff that clearly can't be changed. Even the stuff that everyone else manages perfectly well with.

They are often the same ones who won't work 5mins overtime, with a 'they don't do anything for me, so why should I do anything for them' attitude.

They are often also heard complaining about colleagues in a bitter way.

Who is going to promote someone like that, someone that they essentially don't like and don't want to spend more time working with than they absolutely have to? There's usually a pool of people to choose from, and enthusiastic competence wins every time.

In our place anyway.

ade, agree. I have all the good qualities you mention. Enthusiastic, technically competent, moaner but do try and change or influence things, which makes me quiet and direct and do not suck up. So do tend to piss people off by my great 'communication' skills. How do I get out of this quandary or my predicament. Surely it's the work that matters and not the other bullshit surely. Who would you rather have in your team at the end of the day? Someone hi gets the job done or someone who agrees with everything you say and does mediocre?

Plus quiet and direct are not good combinations. I know.

I certainly wouldn't want someone who agreed with everything I said, but someone who gets the job done with a smile on their face and doesn't rattle the feathers of their colleagues unnecessarily.

There are two words that you have used to describe yourself on this thread that would concern me - 'emotional' and 'direct'. IME people who describe themselves in this way can often come across as a little self absorbed, maybe rude (and you may not be like that at all, have just heard colleagues describing themselves as 'direct' and I've thought 'no, you are tactless and a bit rude').

I think it sounds like your communication skills are your issue, perhaps make a big effort for a few months and see where it gets you. If you genuinely don't think that you are doing anything wrong at all, go and see your line manager and make it clear that you are looking for extra responsibilities/promotion, and ask what you need to do to make that happen.

Have you ever worked for the French OP?

dil, yes I have. I am comfortable in that culture.

It depends what organization and what industry. Its certainly true that a lot of "desirable" industries (journalism, investment banking, advertising, charity sector, civil service) are riddled with cronyism and basically its hard to get in without contacts and impossible past a certain point without a large degree of arse-licking.
But in all honesty I don't think Britain is worse than most places. A good friend of mine emigrated to Italy and then moved back because she had totally lost faith in the possibility that her children would ever get good jobs because they weren't Italian/didn't have right family connections. Britain isn't the meritocracy it likes to think it is but anecdotally I think a lot of the "latin" economies are far, far worse.
I don't think all industries are like this though.

Definetely do something. My Dad is a lovely man but spent 30 + years in an office that was back stabbing and very political - he was a work horse but found himself blamed for other mistakes. He was made reduant 55 + and is now a very bitter person.

Having said that he has the opposite of charm - he makes the most innocent remarks and people take offense its not obvious why.

My first work place was like this as well - I did the bare minimum amount of time and left for somewhere better and got more money with it.

ques agree and can relate to all that you say. However, I thought we were meritocratic. We definitely are not. That's what I can't get my wad around. And comparing to the worst of the lot and feeling good is not really what I want to do either.

American culture is merit based. Right?

Wad=head!!

Not according to the Economist although the article is eight years old...can't imagine there has been any improvement in the last few years.

IME, whining is even less acceptable in US work culture.