To think that the British work is insidious

[Silibilimili]

And petty and full of cronies...

Just that.

million, that's like judging a book by its cover.

You won't know the internal politics by that.

Yes and no.
I think I would like to pm you about it,if that is alright with you.

That's fine. Look forward to the insight. I can't get to the laptop to see the pm till late afternoon. Hope okay.

Do Jerks Get Ahead

The Rules of Work

This is not just a British problem!

I understand what you mean but in my experience those who claimed about cliques and conspiracies and agendas and corruption were paranoid dick heads.

I spend 10 years working with someone who complained that the reason she wasn't being promoted was because her ideas were too 'forward thinking' or too 'out there'. She was being held back because people were threatened. She was a knob. People loathed her.

There are two reasons you are not getting on at work. One is the place is corrupt and full of cronies, the other is you are the problem

I agree with Brycie - having worked in four different countries, everywhere is the same, there's nothing inherently British about what the OP is describing.

I've worked at some effing hideous places in my time, but when I stopped expecting work to meet my emotional needs things improved no end ...

50, I know. It's me. How do I tweak enough to get on and ahead and not sell my soul?

It's not you silibili, in the sense of you are crap, you are no good. It's you in the sense of, you do not blow your own trumpet enough and are too nice to the people below you and not creepy enough to the people above. It's ludicrous to sggest this is paranoid. It's the way it is!

Yes agree with zoomeister: stop expecting people at work to be your friends and to like you. Locate someone above you who is clearly headed for higher things. Latch on to them; suck up to them. You might think it's cringingly obvious. Not to them. Hang on to their coat tails, for a start. Diss your colleagues to them if necessary but in a subtle way, back-handed compliments for example. Never bitch outright; don't smile too much; be very cool; never apologise.

bryce, haha that would be like getting a personality transplant for me.
I am quiet but passionate. Hard to therefore control emotion.

Depends what sector you work in. Finance is crap crap crap. I read a lot of history and the Borgias have nothing on them!

I now work in the 3rd sector and they are very nice indeed! Charities have a bad reputation though! Pay is rubbish too but at least I'm not hiding the the stationery room!

Sili: i'm like you but towards the end of my career, which has been fine, reasonable, decent pay so I haven't minded. But because i don't mind so much personally (which let's be honest really can cloud things) I have a very clear view of what happens in my workplace and in the other offices linked to it. I would say it's got about ten per cent to do with how good you are at your job. That's it. I think you would either have to change, or make yourself content with the way things are.

Change or make myself content. I know. So hard. I don't think I can do either. As for slating off colleagues, not in my nature. It makes you look bad in the long run.
I am not saying I am perfect. However, I see incompetent people going waaaay above and think, 'it's not fair!!'
I recent went from being a contractor to staff so here is what the problem is. To put up with all the work politics.

But just made me wonder, I can't be alone. There must be 'good' people out there that cope somehow. Or even get to the top. How? That's all.
Maybe it's time I went back to earning money again than having a career.

The apparently good people who get to the top have ALL had their moments of ruthlessness behind the scenes. The truly good get half way there, director rather than VP, sidelined into a nice job in training and so on. But slating off colleagues YES it looks bad if you are bitchy. It's not about being bitchy. It's positioning yourself above them in conversation and appraisals, explaining how you helped them achieve something when they couldn't do it, making sure you get the credit, "helpfully" suggesting to someone they need training in an area because they'd then be really good at it. You don't have to lie. Bosses want people who can be like them ie hard.

I have worked for people who haven't been ruthless or evil. Ok so they were truly genious or minor royalty, but have been fairly decent human beings. These were old school boys (very few women - who did tend to be unpleasant) though. The new generation tend to be slimeballs whod sell their own granny for a profit.

This was in the City.

So why are women more ruthless/nasty/bitter etc etc... Just curious as I know being a women I will get one of these labels soon enough if not already.

Not sure. Maybe to climb the greasy pole you just have that extra gene, or maybe climbing the pole makes you ruthless?

I have 'tracked' women from secretaries to 'Head of...' And they, for the most, had their eye on the prize and acted accordingly (back stabbing, sooking up and shagging the boss).

I always said that I'd not want another female boss (have generally been 'harder' on other women for some reason) but then I got my last job...

hmm. I dont think its a women thing per se but it is easier to charm a man than a women. and some men are just nasty and some women are just nasty.

I just cant get my head around the perception that you have to stab/suck up/shag to get to the top. really. Seriously.

I think for women it's a sexism thing - women have to be better, harder, faster, stronger to get the same job as a man. They have to PROVE they aren't going to melt. It's unfair. The old school boys could afford to be nice - they had a job whatever they did,and f they fucked up one of Dad's friends in the foreigno office would find a little spot fo rhim. Or her.

such an interesting and enlightening thread.I have been sat all morning thinking about work problems and getting stressed.

like everyone I have watched others bitch,kiss ass and then get promoted when they are generally lazy or not great at their jobs and have been frustrated that my hard work and achievements has never seemed to get me anywhere.

this thread helps me to accept that this is business and I must either choose to be like others and move to the top or just do enough to ensure my working day is as stress free as poss so I can enjoy time out of work

I may be broke in the meantime but hey one day I will run my own business where things are different.

p.s.if there are any business owners out there who require hard working and extremely capable employees who will fit into their ethical, honest and truly rewarding team environment please pm me!

It should be a lesson really - we've all thought "how can Boss X not SEE how much of a suck-up employee Y is being. It's so fake!" Because they can't. They're on the receiving end and they are also playing the game.