To think that a school cannot impose restrictions on what parents can do during the school day?

[crosstraineraddict]

A friend of mine was telling me about something that has happened at the school where her DCs go. Several times in the past few months, parents have gone out for the day to places over an hour away, to meet friends or go shopping or whatever, and their child has been ill at school, so they've been called and been over an hour getting to the school to pick up their child.

The parents have all apparently had a letter now stating that a parent must be within half an hour of the school at all times during the school day, and that they recommend that at least one parent works locally!

Am I alone in thinking this is bonkers and unfair, not to mention dictatorial!

Prettybird.

I totally agree, but I don't think its common courtesy, its putting your children first. Ok parents have to work but you owe it to your dcs to have someone there if they are ill.
This is the responsibility of the parents not the school. I can't believe people suggest "The school should deal with it or cope" Who in the school? The teacher, the TA, the secretary, they all have jobs and nursing sick kids who should be at home being looked after is not one of their jobs.
I have seen poor kids left for an hour and its heart breaking they want to be in bed. Too many people think school are free child minders, they are educators and have hundreds of kids to TEACH, not nurse and babysit.
Do agree though that the letter shouldn't have specified parents, but responsible adult for emergency contact. I am emergency for several of dds friends as their parents work a distance from school, she is home ed now so I'm always available. We had no family near by when dh and I both worked but we asked a neighbour, friend, other parent. Theres no excuse.

Our pre school insists children go home at the first sign of d&v, or fever. This is for the benefit not only of the ill child but for the many other children and teachers. 3 contacts are required. Spare car seats are available for anyone unexpectedly doing pick ups. The staff:teacher ratio is a legal requirement and there are no spare teachers to do isolation cover. I think all this is more than fair.

However, I have difficulty believing the original post. I imagine that the school has asked for contact of someone who can pick up within half an hour which is more than reasonable.

'Out for the day to meet friends or go shopping or whatever'. The OP would wind me up if I had responsibility for their child & they were too busy shopping.

Spermy I think the OP means they could be shopping or at a friend's more than the specified travel time away.

Potato, given you had your DD at home would you really have been happy to collect a sick child and potentially infect her? You are a good woman if so, but it wouldn't be reasonable to expect everyone to know someone so noble!

Dysfunctional, the spare car seats is a good idea.

I do agree that teaching doesn't strictly equal childcare. However, school is the place your child is during the day and the government, taxation, benefits system etc makes it clear that once a child is of school age then both parents are expected to work. The retirement age is increasing so even if grandparents do live nearby, they may be at work too. School is a legal requirement, it can't be restricted to those lucky enough to know a SAHP who would be prepared to pick up a sick child.

To the school secretary having to do 15 hours of unpaid catch up - whatever the parental situation, looking after sick kids for a while, if it is part of your role, should be in your job description and budgeted for in your "time commitments".

There are more than 600 kids on DS's school site, I do think it's unlikely there are 600 contacts available within 30-60 mins. It would seem more efficient to have an extra member of staff than require 600 people to work locally, but joined up thinking like that isn't a government strength (any government, non party political!)

Just as an aside, Fairyliz and prettybird... My DS2 was ill soon after term started, and because I agree with you, I didn't send him in, and even took time off work. He was really rather poorly and off for 4 days... So yesterday I received a letter from school telling me his attendance has dropped to unacceptable levels, and will be monitored, and they expect me to ensure it rises or they will inform SS. I read this as actually telling me I must send him in, even if he's sick. Sorry Liz! But maybe think about this, and don't blame the parents next time you have a poorly child in your office...

:( flow4 Sometimes you just can't win :(

Some of the primary schools in England seem to have stange attitudes. My experience in Scotland has been of a much more pragmatic and common sense approach. League tables (which we don't have) have a lot to answer for :(

I spent an enjoyable 20 mins in the shower yesterday composing sarky replies to this ridiculous letter...

Dear school,

Thank you for your letter. I am delighted to hear you agree that my DS should always be my top priority in life. I have struggled for years to make satisfactory emergency cover arrangements and now look forward to your full support.

I am a single parent, so currently all the school collection is my responsibility... All of DS's relatives are either under 18, or live over an hour from the school, or are dead, and there's not much you can do about that. However, please will you assist me with dating advice, and pay internet dating site registration fees, so that I can find a partner to help me in future?

As you know, school places are allocated based on a child's home address rather than a parent's work address. Will you please lobby the government to change these rules?

When I am at work, I am required by my employer to attend meetings and travel around the district if requested, and it is a disciplinary offence to leave my duties without permission. These are standard conditions applying to all 17,000 employees. Will you please negotiate with my employer and the unions to vary our contracts, so we can always stay within half an hour's travelling time of school during our working days, and leave work at the drop of a hat if you call us?

Alternatively, will you please lobby the government to change tax credit and state benefit rules so that at least one parent is able to stay at home until their children leave school. Currently, single parents are expected to work once a child reaches school age, and in two parent households these days, both parents are generally expected to work.

Of course, all of these political and legislative changes will take time to achieve, but I am more than happy to give up my job and be a 'stay-at-home mum' so that I can always collect my son from school immediately in an emergency. Please confirm that you will be compensating me for loss of earnings and notify me when you have made a BACS payment of £21K into my account.

Last but not least, assuming I will be able to stay at home from now on, there is one remaining problem... As you may or may not be aware, the transport authority made service changes a few years ago, which mean that there is no longer a bus route to school from my home. Even by car, the journey from the edge of your catchment area can take 20 minutes, but this assumes roads are clear, which of course they sometimes are not. I estimate that the average journey time to school for most parents during the school day would be around 60-90 minutes. I imagine it is not practical for you to provide taxis for parents collecting children, or helicopters, if roads are busy?

However, I do have a simply, practical solution: please confirm that myself and other parents can travel to school with our children on the school bus each morning, and that you will provide sitting/waiting areas, with access to kitchen facilities, so that we can always be close at hand if an emergency arises.

Thank you most sincerely for your assistance in these matters. I look forward to seeing much more of you soon.

agree with Lueji

Add to that my own opnion Is the HT is fucking nuts!

Lol flow4!

Class!

Thank you Sole >bows< >looks modest<

flow4

Love it, flow.

Well done Flow-which all goes to prove that GoSakuramachi was correct yesterday.

I agree with OP, bonkers. This is a growing trend, unfortunately. It is also 'Elf & Safety' gone man. You must be near the school at all times in case Little Johnnie falls over and scrapes his knee or other such life-threatening emergency that lets face it happens to us all on a regular basis .

And ditto, flow 4.

flow you are a genius!

flow you forgot the bit about you welcoming home visits from the HT to verify that your child is properly ill. You wouldn't want to mess up their attendance figures by using your own judgement on this after all...

I sent an email in a similar vein this week. We're moving 300 miles in 10 weeks time. I was told by the authority we're moving to that they couldn't allocate me a school place until 4 weeks after we move. I emailed the Director of Education expressing delight at their forward thinking approach to school attendance and stating that I expect the same enlightened response when I request a term time holiday. Surprise surprise due to my "exceptional circumstances" I can have a school place three weeks before we move.

also what has happened to the medical room and lady/welfare. do primary and secondary schools not have this any more. am i missing something. at my DC secondary school they have matron and a sickbay.

surely they can look after the child til you get there or has there been cut backs.

Primary schools don't have spare staff milling about just in case a child is ill and parents can't have it collected.

The child will in all likelihood be left to its own devices unless it seems a medical emergency and an ambulance will be called.

The fact that a growing number of parents seem to think that it is up to the school to look after their sick child as not to inconvenience their busy lives, is all good and well, but that is no doubt one of the reasons why there are so many sickness bugs in British (state) schools and that is why learning regularly needs to take a back-seat (teachers too busy cleaning and sorting out sick children) and hence results suffer. You cannot have it both ways. And that is one of the reasons why teachers get quite fed up with certain parents as they are not able to do the job they applied for (which wasn't dealing with sick kids on a daily basis).

Ultimately, you may find your work more important, you may think you have the moral high ground because you all work and can't look after your sick child, but this will backfire, your children will learn less than otherwise would have been. They will no they are low priority of their parents and will become inevitably lower priority of their teachers (teaching healthy children takes prevalence over looking after a sick child).

This is maybe why boarding schools are better in some cases. In our area Social Services takes this seriously as they consider that parents have a duty of care for their child. The child which our Head Teacher just referred to SS had been violently sick at school three times since the start of this school year. Clearly, the 48 hour rule was not being observed (parents couldn't take time off work, let school deal with it). The child was now violently sick in class for the fourth time and one of the parents came to pick the child up pretty promptly.

It is ridiculous to think that schools contact SS willy nilly, they will do so if parents clearly are unable to look after the welfare of their child. Schools don't have a duty of care to just one child but with respect to all children. And for Academies it will be easier not to take children on or expel them, more and more primary schools will become Academies, so I do think that it is important that some parents are starting to understand that it is in their own interest to deal with the issue of pick ups during school time when necessary.

I doubt most primary (state) schools have a matron and sick bay. Ours doesn't.

well I must be the lone voice of disagreement then because I wouldn't consider a job which was more than a 20 min drive from my dc's school. On the few occasions they've called me because one of my children is poorly, it's been a massive relief that I could get there fast. On one occasion dd2 had split her chin open and needed stitches. Thank God I was there in 5 minutes, or she'd have had to be driven to A&E by a teacher, which would have added hugely to her distress. She wanted me. On other occasions I've been called because of vomiting. The last time, several months ago, dd2 was vomiting constantly and sitting in the toilet with a teacher she barely knew holding her hair back, caused her huge embarrassment and distress. Luckily I was there in 15 minutes with a bucket and towels and a car outside ready to take her home. And there have been other occasions- ear ache, stomach pain, playground incident causing very bumped head, headache etc... and my dc's have very high attendance rates compared with other kids who are sick all the time. And often have to sit and spend the entire day in school office feeling like a dogs dinner. And then are often sent back in the next day cos the parents are reluctant to take a day off work because they are 'so so busy'.

I don't understand why schools no longer have a sick room. I went to school in the 1980s, there were sick rooms in both my primary and secondary schools (a room next to the secretary's office with a bed, sink, etc). We never had a nurse, but if you felt ill, you sat in that room til either someone came and collected you, or school finished. I was a sickly child, so spent a fair bit of time in those rooms. Why do schools seem to have got rid of them? Makes no sense to me. In my DSs old primary, ill children had to sit on a chair in the corridor!

Not all parents can work within half an hour of the school. I have had 4 different jobs since living in my current house, none has been less than an hour's commute. I live in the London suburbs. That's just the way it is. My Ex works on building sites, he has never been closer than 40 minutes from home either, and mostly a lot further than that. Most people don't have the luxury of work being available on their doorstep.

Re taking time off work, in the current economic climate it's hardly surprising parents are reluctant to do so, no-one wants to give their employer a reason to think they are 'unreliable'. Being a parent is rarely a position of strength in the workplace, certainly not in the field I work in. Bear in mind also many people don't get paid if not at work and simply cant afford to lose a days earnings.

No-one I'm sure sends a really ill child to school. But I expect a lot, as I have done, cross their fingers and hope that a slightly unwell child will feel better rather than worse once at school. And the majority of the time, they do.

Ultimately it is all about choices. Yes, working closer by might be less interesting/less well paid. Yes, living closer near work may mean as smaller house/no garden/school not being rated outstanding. Ultimately, you still have choice.

If you choose to work a long way away from your child's school, knowing that you do not have any emergency cover, then I am afraid that is your choice and you will have to deal with the consequences.

I don't think OP's school is the only school starting to clamp down on parents who seem to think that Duty of Care applies to the school but not to them.

Our school has a First Aid room, but sick kids cannot stay there on their own. It has to be free so other kids can be treated. Sick kids are put on a bench outside with a bucket if puking and otherwise they have to wait inside in the waiting are/hall way (depending how many there are at a given time, as we try not to put them to close to each other).

You can be nearby and uncontactable - playgroups round here insists mobiles are turned off and I've seen other mothers come out of groups to have muliple missed messages saying their DC is sick and need picking up asap.

I've been in the postion of DH working being very far away and me having to take one DC further afield to a hospital appoinment. Luckily I didn't have sick DC that day.

I don't have people locally who will have my DC in an emergency - most people round here have family who help so aren't interested in reciprocal arrangements or they work or they are not keen on sick DC in case theirs get ill. It can be hard enough getting people to walk my well DC less than 10 minutes into school when I have a sick one at home.

I'm curretly a SAHM and close by 90 % of the time - there are still times when I'm some distance away or uncontactable and DH works away during week so is few hours away and nearest realtives are an hours drive away. It's life and sods law its then the school phones and IME the DC have never really been that ill on the few occassions its happened - once it was a cough that was annoying the teacher ffs - the GP said there was nothing to be done.