to be a little shocked at the laissez faire attitude to drugs on here?

[ThatVikRinA22]

at risk of sounding like your mum and pulling a cats bum face

im a bit shocked. Ive seen reference to drugs and recreational drug use on here before, and while i love the diversity of mn, im always quite shocked at what seems to be a majority? view that recreational drugs are just part of life, that its ok because 'professionals' do it too, that its not the same to be seen to use cocaine at the weekend as it is to be a shoplifter or prostitute with an addiction to herioin....

is it just that no one sees the murkier side of drug use?

i suppose i see the darker side because of what i do for a living, but even before that, i would never have been tempted to try. There are the wider issues with production, trafficking, crime, gangs, and the environmental issues in production
just one such story here

my brother was a heroin addict, and i lost my sister to drugs, one way or another, i believe drug use contributed to her death. Seriously, most the crime i deal with is in some way drug related. Two weeks ago i was involved in an attempted murder over cocaine and cannabis supply.

i am not some rabid campaigner, but this is mumsnet - are most of us parents? i find it odd that people can froth about the small stuff, that people get pilloried for some really bizarre stuff on here while threads about drug use get a fairly "meh" response. (yes its a thread inspired by the coke using teachers assistant....)

why is that? genuinely interested to explore why coke use is seen as ok, and wonder what is not ok?

if its ok for the TA to use coke at the weekend, is it ok for them to smoke crack? or use heroin? doctors were mentioned on the last thread....would you undergo an operation knowing your doctor or surgeon had used coke? or smoked cannabis?

if its just part of life, where would you draw the line?
do people not realise what it takes to get that gram of coke at the pub at the weekend?

well im getting loads of PMs about this - people just darent post against the majority view.

I'm not surprised. I said that would be the case right at the start of this thread.

Ruby, that's splitting hairs.

You say you have never met anyone who is ardently against drugs. That is patently untrue if you work with people who are against children using drugs. It is the same thing .

Here in Dublin the vast majority of poverty, gangs and violence is drug related - child poverty due to heroin addict parents, gangs and violence is almost always due to turf wars; almost all shootings are drug related.

To say that isn't the fault of the drugs, but the fault of the users is naive to say the least.

The problem with drugs is their illegality which causes many of the social problems associated with them. You had the same problems with prohibition on alcohol.

I spent most of my youth experimenting with recreational drugs and it never had any negative impact on me or most of those who I had fun with.

Those stereotypical addicts would have had a different addiction if heroin wasn't available, it would have been alcohol/gambling/religious cult/meth/eating disorders, it's just a matter of what gets to them first. Their problems are there long before they ever taste whatever it is they eventually get addicted to and no amount of societal or government control will save these people from themselves.

Most of them have serious problems stemming from abuse or neglect in childhood, they could have been saved if parents faced serious repercussions for harming their kids. Bad parenting sends most of the damaged souls into our communities who then go on to harm themselves and others.

What I hear is people upset that their negative experiences of drugs are dismissed and invalidated.

However, people with positive experiences are also upset that their experiences are dismissed and invalidated.

I personally can at least say that I have experience of both and so know that both are valid.

The government is not being honest with the information released about drugs, and current policy is not working.

There we go.

Sorry vicar, I did my best. But apparently the only people who have problems with addiction are those who have serious problems stemming from abuse or neglect in childhood, they could have been saved if parents faced serious repercussions for harming their kids. Bad parenting sends most of the damaged souls into our communities who then go on to harm themselves and others."

As usual, it's all the parents' fault.

And that is why you are getting pm's and people can't face being dismissed on the board.

Goodnight.

The truth hurts. It's still the truth.

Social criminality associated with drugs (gang warfare, violent crime, prostitution etc) = fault of the government

Abuse of drugs = fault of the user (not that they deserve it, just that they are responsible, same as a driver is responsible for their own error that leads to a crash)

Accidental death from responsible use of drugs = nobody's 'fault', one of life's risks that went bad, drugs are dangerous!

I don't think it is splitting hairs at all. It is not the same thing. Being anti underage drinking isn't anti alcohol.

I'm happy for people to use drugs if they want. I use drugs. Once my children are or have been effectively adults so over the age of 16 or 18 I'm ok with moderate drug use. I however do not think that a 10 or 11 year old should be smoking weed or taking mdma.

The attitude of those I'm talking about is similar, when the individuals are older theres no issue around the drug use, its to with age of the users.

While in my area there is obviously lots of drug dealing related violence, a large proportion is also postcode wars which is to do with poverty and lack of ownership. The majority of the poverty is through high living costs, poorly paid jobs or unemployment and high levels of new immigrants who are still finding their feet. The estate I used to live on most recently was an is the most violent in the area, nearly everyone was employed or was a full time parent, there were very few addicts like those i encountered when I grew up on the estates, so no drug use was not all to blame for the poverty. The poverty was there first.

goodnight mary and thank you. i appreciate you contributing and i know, im sorry.

the pms im getting show me that that is not the case. people are scared to post.
thank you though for trying.
x

Also as I said I've never encountered anyone who has -openly- been ardently against drugs.

On mn there is sometimes spitting blood outrage and hand wringing at drug use which is to me ardent anti-drugs behaviour.

I said I've encountered people who don't participate and probably a few people who might frown upon it but never the kind of disgust that I see on mn or in the media.

"You cannot criticise where drugs come from without examining where your clothes come from, where your food comes from, because I promise you you will not like what you find. The people with wealth are trampling all over the people with little, and unfortunately you and I (and almost everyone in a 'western' country falls into the wealth camp)."

Bullshit.

When (for example) tea production, importation and supply involves the use of drug mules, murder, corruption, bribery from source to end you may have a point.

Until then is a fatuous attempt to rationalize some appalling behaviour. But keep kidding yourself that the [i]possible[/i] sweatshop labour involved in your trainers is the same as the square kilometre of rainforest that your 10 grammes of coke has destroyed, that its the same as the near certain involvement of a drug mule and that its the same as the corruption that is undermining many South American governments. Keep telling yourself that.

I don't see why people should be scared to post, and I don't understand why you seem to be expressing the need for validation of others to support your own personal views.

As far as I can see, this thread has been extremely civil on both sides.

BeanieStats separate out the problems caused by the illegality (responsibility of the government), and then we can have a discussion.

And yes, I do consider child sweatshops pretty fucking horrendous.

See Vicar, the people who are pro-drugs are quite happy to be actively nasty, and to blame anyone and everyone rather than admit it is drugs and the drug trade that causes problems.

They have to convince themselves that they only use harmless recreational drugs. And convince themselves that the drugs they use don't contribute to the worldwide drugs trade.

They have to keep up those delusions. Because facing the truth about themselves is too difficult for them to admit. Just like my son says "it's only a bit of weed", happily forgetting that the dealer who sells that weed (and uses 12 year olds as runners) is also a major supplier for the local prison where he supplies prisoners with more than weed. He also supplies cocaine to local businessmen, but of course has a man in a suit delivering the cocaine so the delusional businessmen can pretend his drugs are "clean".

Of course legalising it at this end would have no effect whatsoever on down the chain - apart from of course increasing demand, so more slaves, more forest, more mules would be needed.

Scaredbutdoingit - I don't agree with your definition of use/abuse I think it's splitting hairs. The fact is, that drugs often have effects that are completely devastating. It is russian roulette every time you take them. Also I don't think that it's enough to say its ok as long as the individual takes responsibility for their actions. Who deals with the aftermath when that person gets ill? Their family, friends and the NHS - all of whom did not say, yeah, go ahead take it and we'll pick up the pieces if you end up in a mess.

Still very glad drugs are illegal and still hoping that they stay that way.

Why are people scared to post?

Scared of what?

Scared of being called shit parents.

Scared of being drawn into a conversation that really matters to them when others just dismiss their concerns as being a load of bollocks.

Scared of being abused and called control freaks for caring.

Many of us have been on too many of these threads.

Fair enough Mary.

MaryZed In my case at least, I freely own up to the fact that I contribute to a lot of misery in this world. It just so happens that none of it has anything to do with drugs and everything to do with the fact that I am a consumer in a country of wealth. If I took drugs, it would be another karmic debt in the ocean I already owe (as does everyone sitting on and wearing mass produced items from poor countries).

One evil does not justify the other. Both should be abolished. The supply chains are what is utterly wrong, not the end product.

MaryZed If you like you can talk with me, and I promise you I will call you none of that. I do however have some very valid arguments (in my humble opinion).

Nearly everyone I know has taken drugs. All middle class professionals. Myself, I can't think of a drug i haven't taken, bar heroin, in my 20s. But I got bored of it and the come downs got tedious. So like most, I stopped. I now have a joint,like every 6 months or something. Doesn't interest me anymore. Not all people who enjoy drugs in their youth become losers and failures.

I did not read through the entire thread, so I may be repeating what others have said. I apologize for that.

I'm with you on this one, OP. I see lots of damage from drugs, not just the use end (but it's there) but the cartel end. And it's not just because they are illegal, they are profitable. To a degree you can't even begin to understand if you don't work in that area. I don't actually work in that area, but my god, the things I have heard.

I also find it amazing that I see a good number of posters here who often post against the porn industry (which is not illegal) posting they are fine with drugs. (BTW, I am also against porn)

They must not have any idea about the damage the drug industry does to women and girls. I know it's only ancedotal, but one little girl I have worked with is 13. She has a 1.5 year old son because she was raped repeatedly by someone in a drug gang/cartel and the parents couldn't stop him without being killed themselves. The parents sent her to live with her aunt here, to try to keep her safe.

that's just one story. the women and girls being preyed upon in turf wars, and women and girls who go missing, who are abducted for these cartel's use, it's horrible. Women who speak out against this abuse are targeted and often killed outright by the cartels and governments.

And this abuse and human suffering is supported by these posters and friend's recreational drug use. The same ones who decry porn as an abuse are fueling a system that does as bad or worse things to women.

People should educate themselves about how their actions affect others. If you can do it for clothes, why not for your illegal drugs?

mary
thank you. you are saying what i cant - i cant speak for those who pm'd me. but you one and now you are here, speaking for yourself, saying it all over again and i know its painful, and for that im sorry.

Scared to post?

Really

Surely they'd just name change and post their support OP if they agree with you?