to be a little shocked at the laissez faire attitude to drugs on here?

[ThatVikRinA22]

at risk of sounding like your mum and pulling a cats bum face

im a bit shocked. Ive seen reference to drugs and recreational drug use on here before, and while i love the diversity of mn, im always quite shocked at what seems to be a majority? view that recreational drugs are just part of life, that its ok because 'professionals' do it too, that its not the same to be seen to use cocaine at the weekend as it is to be a shoplifter or prostitute with an addiction to herioin....

is it just that no one sees the murkier side of drug use?

i suppose i see the darker side because of what i do for a living, but even before that, i would never have been tempted to try. There are the wider issues with production, trafficking, crime, gangs, and the environmental issues in production
just one such story here

my brother was a heroin addict, and i lost my sister to drugs, one way or another, i believe drug use contributed to her death. Seriously, most the crime i deal with is in some way drug related. Two weeks ago i was involved in an attempted murder over cocaine and cannabis supply.

i am not some rabid campaigner, but this is mumsnet - are most of us parents? i find it odd that people can froth about the small stuff, that people get pilloried for some really bizarre stuff on here while threads about drug use get a fairly "meh" response. (yes its a thread inspired by the coke using teachers assistant....)

why is that? genuinely interested to explore why coke use is seen as ok, and wonder what is not ok?

if its ok for the TA to use coke at the weekend, is it ok for them to smoke crack? or use heroin? doctors were mentioned on the last thread....would you undergo an operation knowing your doctor or surgeon had used coke? or smoked cannabis?

if its just part of life, where would you draw the line?
do people not realise what it takes to get that gram of coke at the pub at the weekend?

Raggybaggy fair enough if you don't agree. I don't think its splitting hairs at all, in many ways I think its the crux of the matter.

Taking drugs is not Russian roulette every time. It is if you do not know and/or care what you are doing. It is if you do not have access to accurate, honest information.

Picking up the pieces is exactly what society should do. Its what we do when car accidents happen. Its what we do when another smoker ends up in hospital with lung cancer. Its what we do when obesity gives a huge percentage of us diabetes. Its what we do because it is the cost of freedom.

I am all for figuring out ways to reduce the amount of pieces there are to be picked up, but to me, criminality is part of the problem, not the solution.

the point is though that those middle class professionals didn't have super strong skunk so freely available in their day - it is IN THE FACES of our children, I know of dealers in year 9.

OK, on the issue of supply chains, I posted earlier about chocolate. Child slavery, trafficking, deaths, beatings. In a lot of the majority world, cash crops of every sort produce suffering. And, don't even start on gold and diamonds. Mercury poisoning, wars etc. I don't eat non-fair trade chocolate and I don't take coke.

However, I am pro-choice about drugs the way I am about abortion. It doesn't mean I'm pro-abortion. I would like; perfect birth control; no rape or incest; no unwanted pregnancy. There would be no need for abortion. I don't 'like' abortion, it is just none of my business what another woman does with her body.

Just like drugs. I would like a well controlled supply chain, an end to the child abuse that sends so many people into addiction, a real debate about all substances particularly prescription drugs which are now one of the first drugs kids in the US try and are VERY harmful in a lot of cases. I would like good, residential rehab for anyone who asked. I would like clean drugs, clean equipment and safe sites for people. I would like good MH services and prisons that dealt with MH well.

For me, drugs are very much not the issue. The way we see addiction, MH, recreational use, crime, young people they are all issues.

Vicar I'm not sure you should be giving away that kind of info on here, someone might know him. Do you want to report your post?

BTW I know people who have died at the hands of drunk people and people that have died of alcohol abuse. I still think people can make their own minds up about alcohol use.

So lets get this straight. The responsibility for the violence and suffering directly and demonstrably caused by the production and supply of illegal drugs is not:

• those who grow the drugs, destroying hundreds of square kilometers of rain forest and releasing tonnes of toxic chemicals in to the environment with complete disregard.
• those who use a variety of vulnerable groups (including children) to smuggle drugs across boarders
• those who bribe, corrupt and undermine law enforcement
• those who supply with no regard for the age and stability of their "customers", and maintain their supply through violence
• those who create the demand for the drugs through their consumption with no regard for the laws of their country

but is instead the responsibility of any number of democratic nations enforcing their sovereign laws regarding the production and supply of controlled substances?

This is just another piss poor attempt to rationalize away the pain and misery that the drug trade causes.

The consumption of drugs directly contributes to the misery and suffering of millions worldwide. The responsibility of this lies at every stage in the creation and supply chain but especially with those who create the demand for the substance in the first place.

As someone else stated above, driving with no insurance is illegal. That does not however mean that the responsibility for the loss of my car due to an accident involving an uninsured driver lies with the government.

Do you think I am some sort of middle class professional, cushioned from reality?

sigh If you really want sordid details I will give them (pre-empting yet another namechange because this really is too painful for me).

I have been a drug user. I am no longer.

I have family members ravaged by both drug and alcohol use. Some are dead, some are dying, some might as well be dead. One made it out and then died from a completely unrelated cause.

I was also surrounded by utter religious insanity and hypocrisy, and family members that covered the whole nasty thing up.

I was raped as a child. I was raped as an adult. I was beaten on more occasions than I can count (and have the X-rays to prove it).

I managed to pull out of the mess that surrounded me and make something more of my life.

If you think I am ignorant of reality, I am telling you, you are wrong. My arguments come from a place of understanding and experience, and absolutely no outside agenda other than the truth.

mrs
ive reported my post. you are right. too many details.

Drugs should be legalized, it would help hugely and stop crime.

And BeanieStats no, the responsibility does lie on the producers, the users, and the governments overseeing it all.

And if you really think where your sneakers, your jewelery, your food, and your furniture comes from is no big deal and incomparable, then you really need to look at it again, because it really is just as horrible.

Vicar I meant this in the nicest possible way but are you ok?

I might be way off kilter here but is your job getting to you?

I remember only a few weeks back you starting a thread saying you were either going to take some time off MN or name change because you were getting so many PMs asking for your help because everyone knows you're a Police officer?

I don't envy your choice of career but reading your posts on this thread, you do seem....I don't know really 'down' about it?

OK Vicar I'll report too, just to bump it up their radar former SS employee, I know what it's like with the confidentiality.

Wow, didn't need to. It looks like MNHQ are watching us

In fact, let take the issue of the chemicals involved with the production of cocaine. Its a lengthy list, many of which are hugely toxic and their uncontrolled release can (and does) cause long term environmental damage.

Columbia decides to legalise the cultivation of Coca Erythroxylaceae. Great. Now why is Mr. A C. Farmer suddenly going to go to the hassle and expense of safe disposal of these chemicals? He plainly didn't give a shit when cultivation was illegal and I don't expect the penalty for improper disposal of a toxic material is going to be more than it was for cultivation when it was illegal.

It's one example but the principle can be applied across the entire production and supply chain and amply demonstrates the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of those who try to rationalize the destruction that the drug trade causes.

yes im down about it.
yes im looking for another job.
yes ive spoken to my sgt,
yes im sick of taking hte blame for all manner of societies ills....just look for the DV thread in which we (the police) are to blame for dale cregan shooting dead 2 officers because we are apparently so shit at dealing with DV.....despite the fact that the CPS have the final say in all DV cases....

yes im down. yes ive had enough. really i have, i get my 2 year handshake next monday,
shame. im looking for another job, i could get a job that paid minimum wage and actually take home the same amount as i do now, true fact. i pay £200 in pension (that i cant now claim until im too old to enjoy it) and i pay £250 in petrol....i could honestly earn mn wage and take home as much if i worked locally.

ive had enough. yep.

thanks HQ. and im sorry. im a pita.

BeanieStats I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

I agree with you that its utterly horrible. Anyone who takes drugs is in part contributing to that nasty chain of events. Criminality imposed by the governments is making it even nastier.

What I am saying is that you and I are contributing to equally nasty chains of events with almost everything we buy. And that is the truth!

Vicar we're arguing on here but I was on the Hillsborough thread and know you are a solid person. I hope your job looks up or you can find a way to use those skills because you do have lots to give. Sorry it all looks shit right now.

Ahh thought so.

Well good luck with whatever you decide to do next

Vicar I'd also like to add my empathy and admiration for your position (even though I know we disagree), and again my sincere respect for your job and every police officer out there.

I know firsthand what you face, and its not easy. You've saved my butt more than once.

Honestly, thank you.

I am not someone that promotes drug taking, and I haven't really experimented... but I believe cannabis if done in moderation isn't really much harm. You can't OD on cannabis, the health effects are no more dangerous than alcohol.

I have never seen the appeal to any of the 'harder stuff'.

Scaredbutdoingit - taking drugs is not the same as driving a car. When I get in a car and start driving, I know that the vehicle will not have unpredictable effects on my brain and I will not become so addicted to it that I might do practically anything to get into a car again. It is not a good enough analogy (is that the right word? I mean not a like for like comparison).

We use our brains to control our actions. If we screw our brains up by taking substances that can have totally unpredictable results and change your brain so you'll never be the same again, then that is just totally irresponsible and foolish.

It is not the same thing as getting in a car, on a bicycle or whatever. You have also not taken into account that we are all physically different so what has no adverse effect on one person may have very adverse effects on another. What one person might find non-addictive, another might find very addictive.

The problem with the comparison with alcohol and tobacco is that those substances have existed historically within our society for 100s of years, and is so deeply embedded that to make it illegal now would be politically impossible. However, medical science now provides evidence about alcohol and tobacco that didn't exist until relatively recently. On the basis of this evidence, tobacco is now banned in public spaces - which is a good thing, advertising has been banned in some areas and now we can't see the stuff when we go into the supermarket - all of which has to be a good thing.

On which note, I'm going to sign off.

my skills are not wanted, nor needed. i am looking daily for another job,and that could be checkout girl for all i care. ive done that before. much more gratifying.

"What I am saying is that you and I are contributing to equally nasty chains of events with almost everything we buy. And that is the truth!"

Keep kidding yourself that the chocolate I buy tomorrow causes the same chain of misery, suffering and destruction that the gramme of coke someone else buys at the weekend does.