Are some parents too lax or am I too cautious? Don't know. Need Mumsnet Jury.

[CrapBag]

Been having some conversations with various people recently about safety and such around children. I am pretty careful with certain things and I am a wary person. I try not to be neurotic and I think I am well balanced in what I am careful with but some people I know do not seem to share some of my fears and I don't know whether they are slightly lax or I am over cautious.

Someone I know has blinds in her living room. My mum has cautioned her on the hanging cords as she often has her granddaughter (3) to stay but she doesn't listen and just says "its ok, x listens to me and won't play with them". X is not known for her listening and doing as she is told skills.

My sister baths her 2 DS's together, oldest is 4, youngest is 16 months. The 16 month old is in a bath seat (and has recently started walking so probably climbing to follow). She leaves the room and does things in the upstairs rooms, but she also admitted that she will nip downstairs as she can run up quickly again. I have similar age children who DP mainly baths but I won't let them be left in the bath alone together. IMO the youngest is too young to be left.

A couple of relatives regularly give lifts to others children, under the age of 5 with no booster seat. Their reasoning is they aren't going far so it is ok.

I get laughed at for still cutting up grapes for my 5 year old. Yes I know this may be a bit OTT but as they are such a choking hazard, I just don't take that chance.

I have all my medications etc right up put of reach. My cousin recently told me that she leaves her pills (the pill) on her nightstand as her children (5) know they are not allowed to touch them. I know one of my children is still young but even if I didn't have a 23 month old, I still wouldn't leave pills around within reach of my 5 year old.

I also don't leave any cords hanging around, belts, ties, dressing gown that sort of thing as I think children can get into trouble by playing with them but I am pretty sure that all of my friends did when I said about that one.

So Mumsnet Jury, am I over cautious or are some people a bit too lax or is a bit of both?

Just read back, all of the above are things that I don't do that I thought were a matter of course but others seem to think that I am too careful and their children won't do things because they know not to, like mine doesn't .

Last year my DP and I were reading the daily mail (sorry!) and there was a story about a little girl who had died after getting caught on the blind cord. It was extracts from the inquest and it was heartbreaking from her dad who found her.

We have a blackout blind in DS (now 2 years old) bedroom. DP stood up without saying a word and return a minute later with the cord in 2 pieces, he'd cut it off. We had a hook to tie it up on but after reading that, he wanted rid of it. Just means i have to stand on a chair and wind it up by hand.

We try and be cautious and careful.

It's just because we have this "it won't happen to me" mentality. We are probably more concerned about specific accidents if someone we know has had one.

I do not care how ott people think I am or how they choose to risk assess themselves. All children are capable of all the same things. Just because they don't (generally) do something doesn't mean they won't and I would much rather be safe than sorry.

LeQueen I buy huge cheap bags from morrisons. I am willing to go canned/jarred as long as they are cheap (cheap food! another sin)

grumpy I know what you mean. i worked in A&E for 6 years (non clinical) and having lost a child myself now know many, many bereaved parents.
I also work with very young disabled children.

These things together make me realise that 'freak' accidents are really not as freakish as many imagine.

Its possible to be vigilant and risk adverse without being panicky and neurotic. You just become very aware and good and assessing situations.

Saying that - I can be very neurotic but that's a different thread...

I'm pretty sure socket covers are now considered dangerous and not recommended CouthyMow.

One of the difficult things to pull out of the headline deaths though is how much it can be down to unfamiliarity as much as the inherent danger in the thing or activity. ie is a death caused by a baby getting hold of a grape for the first time whole as opposed to having had lots of mouth experience of foods that can be choked on. Similarly with other things (strapping in car seats etc. excepted obviously) are the risks higher for the baby/child who's never come across the risk before.

Thing is, if you did a risk assessment on that Ajaney, you'd find that standing on a chair to reach up to the top of a window morning and night is definitely not a sensible way forward - the risk from that is far higher than the risk from cords!

A little Scottish boy (five years old) died at his after-school club earlier this year. He choked on a grape.

I also know of a little girl who died after choking on the little piece of stalk on an apple.

I think better safe than sorry.

I think that's a good point FredFredGeorge - everyone has to take risks, in order to learn what is and isn't possible. Think this is born out by the numbers of 11 and 12 yr olds getting run over these days, as they've not learned toe skills they need to negotiate roads on their own. Now, I'm not suggesting you let a toddler play with a blind cord, but at the same time, it depends on lots of things like - is the child going to be left in a room alone, when visiting a grandparent? Clearly questions like that have a different answer for each family, but it's all about risk assessment for that individual situation.

Five year old dies choking on grape - daily mail though i'm afraid

It is so not worth the risk.

But a child will need to learn to cross a road.
A very small child will never need to pull a blind cord and by the time they do they will be able to safely due to natural development.

Bit like stair gates. Having one will not prevent an 11 year old from being able to use the stairs properly but it will stop a child with an underdeveloped sense of danger and physical skills falling down.

I really am not a fussy, cotton wool parent. I may be in my head but not in RL. If I was I wouldnt have spent last Sunday morning in A&E again

for MrsDV.

Cheer up chicken, you've managed a whole seven days without a repeat trip!

Def with you on the grapes. My first aid instructor was a paramedic and said this was one of the most common ways of choking and most children she had attended to were over the age of 5. They're worse than boiled sweets for choking issues. (Wonders if dcs have ever had a boiled sweet though)

randall that is exactly the point. When they are playing you can hear them chatting and splashing. If it went quiet even for a moment, then we go in to find out why. I often pause and call out to them if it has gone quiet. They just call back.

The drowning kids you describe also sound as if they had carbon monoxide poisoning from the faulty boiler, hence the unconsciousness and drowning. That is not very likely of you don't have a boiler, or the boiler is a long way from the bathroom, and you have a carbon monoxide alarm. (which I realise probably weren't around at the time)

I am more paranoid about carbon monoxide alarm and smoke alarm than others are. I think they save more lives.

I wasn't criticising Steppe honestly. I'm sure you've assessed the risk for yourself and are happy with your decision.

What happened with the girls was a freak accident of course it was, and you're right we are much more aware of CO2 risks now.

I genuinely apologise if I offended you but I'm sure you understand why it's an emotive subject for me and my family.

GrumpyCrossPatch - no worries if it upsets you too much, but if you think it would help us prevent more injuries or deaths, would you share some of the situations in which the children you mention died/were injured?

I am fairly terrified of freak deaths... sometimes they are just that but other times you think perhaps they could be prevented.

I agree with the grapes though my kids don't have them anymore as they don't agree with them.

Ive heard many stories about blind cords but we don't have blinds. I don't hide away dressing gown belts but sometimes my partner does.

I always hold my kids hands nr roads, or at least make my 4 yr old stay nr to me. When I was growing up, I knew of a couple of children that were run over so I tend to err heavily on the side of caution.

I'm with you on the car seats, though I was in a bad car crash when I was 16 and struggle with anxiety even when my kids are all safely belted up.

You are maybe a bit over cautious, I wouldn't have blinds with cords, for example, in a child's bedroom, but would in the living room where they would be supervised fairly closely/I would be around.

I always feel a bit sick when people don't cut grapes up. My friend's 2 year old DD died after choking on a grape. Her next door neighbour was a paramedic and there was nothing they could do to help. Apparently it's a fairly common cause of death in young children.

Some parents are too relaxed about it. About everything. But most are kind of normal.

If someone seems much too casual about safety and so on then I tend to give them a swerve, and not let my child go to their house etc.

But it takes a fair bit of evidence before I do this - for instance a child pulling a knife on my son the other week, without his mum even realising. He won't be going there again in a hurry (they are 9)

Midori that's just given me the chills. You're poor friend, that's awful

I don't think you are BU at all. All the examples you give are quite reasonable, and in fact are in line with official advice. You should never leave small children unattended in a bath, for example, because they drown very quickly and easily. As for tablets, they should always, always be out of reach, just like bleach or any other dangerous substance.

And the oft-used argument about not mollycoddling children doesn't really apply here, because children don't gain any particular benefit from being left alone in the bath or to play alone around blinds or travel in a car without a car seat.

My son almost choked on some cereal and he's 5! It was those golden ball ones. its frightened the crap out of me, needless to say those cereals are banned in this house and I still cut my 5 & 3 year olds grapes up.
we have also cut all blind cords and have the special safety breakers on others.
dressing gown belts etc I see where your coming from. I don't put mine away as such but I do keep it out of reach.
We never had car seats as kids (i frequently sat in the footwell at the front of my parents car) & although I would never not use my kids seats I have given people lifts without one if its just down the road.
Medicine is always in a high up closed door cabinet apart from my gaviscon (38 weeks pregnant and I swig it out the bottle lol)
Kids don't see dangers like adults do and imo you can never be too cautious you can however be token lax and that comes with serious consequences.

sorry too lax not token lax lol

I always cut grapes and cherry tomatoes.

medicine is out of the way...belts are up high.

No blinds here.

I am paranoid about marbles too.

I threw out a toy that had little round smooth balls, I think it was hungry frogs? I just could not relax knowing the kids could get to the game (we have a storage chest with games in) & i would be none the wiser. I think when you have more than one its about foreseeing risks in advance as you can't always stand over them every minute.
My niece and nephew were taken away from their mother (my horrible sister in law) because she was incapable of looking after them properly, they were 4 & new born at the time & I sometimes wonder how they survived to be honest.

Crikey, will go back to cutting my nearly 5yo's grapes up immediately. He has just been eating some and I have now gone cold reading this! .

Agree on medicines, car seats and under 3s should definitely never be left alone in a bath.

My DH is also paranoid about plastic bags left lying around (teens do this constantly) as his mum's friend had a DS who died playing with one when he was little.

We are also excessively paranoid around swimming pools since our DS4 nearly drowned on holiday a few years ago - the worst experience of my life. We were already paranoid before it happened, and I sometimes can't believe how relaxed others are with their toddlers on holiday.