to think benefits are a safety net against poverty, not a cushion against an uncomfortable life ?

[TalkinPeace2]

Prompted by a thread where somebody said "DH has lost his job, what benefits are we entitled to?"

Sorry, but its the duty of ALL those on more than average wages (£26k per household) to put money aside for a rainy day.
No wonder the country is up to its eyes in debt if people first think about benefits rather than self reliance.

The benefit system should be to prevent true poverty, no more.

The American system has too many gaps. Most European systems, including that in the UK, provide far too comfortable a cushion, at far too high a cost to the next generation (as historically current over generous benefits have been kicked down the road to be paid for by our children who will never be entitled to such things).

Exaactly Sammy and that is where the hypocrisy is.

Yes, but I read it that she was complaining about the system rather than individuals, and that the main point was that people should make saving money more of a priority.

Which, by the way, I don't really agree with.

"Yes, but I read it that she was complaining about the system rather than individuals, and that the main point was that people should make saving money more of a priority. "

They should, but some people have a large mortgage and debt etc. They think that the worst won't happen to them, so they live to their means.

Which IMO is up to them. If you want to live to your means then do it, as long as you are earning a wage and paying your income tax and NI.

I'd much rather see benefits go to people who genuinely tried to contribute to the system but then had to deal with life's shit than I would see them go to people who have barely worked a day as an adult and are being entirely supported by the state because they went and had children they had no way of providing for.

It's common sense to save for a rainy day, but I don't think people deserve to be penalised for not doing so. Just because I am a pesimistic old git who plans for the worst, doesn't mean everyone else should be.

Yanbu.unfortunately there will always be lazy people.

This thread makes me sad. I think, despite what people think about people on benefits, the majority of us wish we had a high enough income NOT to have to claim benefits. I work part time, and have worked since and before my son was born but the wages are low, I use HB to pay my private rent and rely on Working tax credits to help the childcare issues as I am alone. Do i want this? No! I would love to have my own house for security for my son, I hate rented accomdation and the fact any minute I could be told my landlord wants to sell up and I have to go. I hate dealing with tax credits people, they always muck it up and even though I tell them everything every year I get them flaming letters wanting every last bit of proof of childcare and then usually say I owe them something despite me telling them every last little detail!

The problem is so many companies are not paying good enough wages, the minimum wage which is basically what I am on and I work for a very well known company is just not good enough. I do as much overtime as I can but even if I do 40 hours per week (which I have done near xmas but subsquently had to make up with rent anyway as then my HB was deducted due to me earning more that month!) I still only clear a little under 1000 a month. My rent is 650 a month, council tax 80 so if it wasn't for benefits i'd stand no chance.

I hope to god one day I get offered a promotion at work and I work damn hard all the time and hope it pays off. I hate the fact people seem to think it's so easy and it's just not true. I wish I had the financial security of my own house, a job which didn't require tax credits to survive. I dread to think what it will be like when my son grows up. :(

between me and dh we earn roughly £3000 /month it may sound like loads but my outgoing alone come to£1500 then there is petrol dh does a round trip everyday for work of twenty miles i have to get taxis to go to work as there are no buses where i live at 6,30 in morning , food costs a damn fortune so be honest we struggle some of this is our fault as we have loans etc but they are being paid why would i not be worthy of benefits because i have no savings would i be more worthy i had never worked and therefore not paid NI AND paye benefits should never be seen as a life choice but shoud be as they are a safety net for anybody who falls on hard times or for people who cant work due to disabilities etc

Hello all. I think I must be the person who posted that my DH was to be made redundant and had the front to ask if anyone knew what the position might be with regard to benefits. Yes, I think it really is me.

Thank you to everyone who said reasonable things they'd thought out. Unlike TP2 who doesn't want to let facts that she doesn't have get in the way of her Great Truth.

OP is a judgmental fool talking bollocks and deserves nothing more than the goat/biscuit/52" plasma comments that she got at the start. NotonethingbutAnother I hope all works out ok for you.

Hi Notone. Im of the opinion that as this thread was specifically started to have a go at what you originally posted as to enquire help at a stressful time, then it is a form of bullying. The OP stooped quite low.

Thanks guys. It was a low thing to do, but the OP actually did me a favour as I was sort of cheered up ifyswim by people being generally supportive - when I posted the original question, I thought lots of people would say it was our fault for not putting money aside etc etc. Anyway. Still waiting to hear if DH is on the list and thanks again. I love a thread with a goat in it. x

We definitely should talk about reforming the benefits system but ONLY after the following has happened:

1. Banks have paid back all of the money they have had from Govt and Bank of England;

1. Bankers have paid back all their bonuses of the last 10 years to help recapitalise the banks and pay back the public money handed out to rescue the banks;

1. Everyone living in this country is paying a marginal rate of income tax of 35% on every penny they earn above a personal allowance of £10k.

Only then can we start reforming benefits. It will never happen.

Reforming benefits won't happen because it is CHEAP.

Benefits is paid by:

taxing habits
taxing the low income.

Not enough people understand this point. They do not seem to see that whilst they receive credits with one hand, huge chunks are removed (invisibly). People need to wake up to this! It is monstrous that the poor pay for the welfare system (as it is currently set up)

Welfare is govt washing their hands of the unproductive and ghettoising them, whilst uttering caring platitudes.

And people fall for it.

Thing is, LOTS of people are slogging their guts out FT for far, far less than £26k.

When I was with my ex, he worked for 37.5 hrs per week paid, and probably around 8 extra hours a week+ unpaid. For that he brought home just £16.8k. Before Tax & NI.

Where the fuck was he meant to find money to 'put away' when we have DC 's, and I can 't work due to disability?

RL isn't as cut and dried as all that. If you are in £26k in the SE, that doesn't 't even cover rent and bills and food.

And by the very definition of 'average', more than half of people in employment will be earning LESS than that £26k figure, because for every person earning £52k, there will be two earning £26k, or 4 people earning £13k. NMW is less than £12k pa BEFORE Tax & NI.

Where are all those people meant to find a rainy day fund if a 2-bed house costs 35% of their income BEFORE they have paid their utility bills and food costs and travel to work...

It's monstrous that the poor pay for the welfare system

Right, because no one that earns above NMW pays income tax and NI, do they?

NotonethingbutAnother - don't worry about being judged as I think just about everyone has been in your shoes at one point. For the vast majority of people benefits are a temporary stopgap, not a gateway to life as a welfare queen!

I lost my job during the last recession and claimed benefits for a few months. I held onto my current job by a whisker earlier this year, but 50% of my colleagues got the chop. We were told the company was doing well, and riding out the recession, and then BAMM! Many have struggled to regain employment.

However well you think you are doing, however hard you work, you may only be a couple of paydays away from the dole queue.

For the vast majority of people benefits are a temporary stopgap, not a gateway to life as a welfare queen!

This ^

I don't understand why some people take umbrage at this.

When I was working and earning £42k, pre-disability, I managed to save a pot of £20k, whilst paying a mortgage and commuting costs.

When my disability was diagnosed and I lost my job (barred by law due to my specific disability, and no alternative posts at my workplace), I was told by the DWP to live off my savings. They lasted 8.5 months. After that, I had no choice but to claim benefits.

I HAVE worked since then, in NMW jobs, but as I had already had 3 DC's, two of whom have SN's (my oldest DC's SN's weren't diagnosed until AFTER I had had my 3rd DC...), I wouldn't survive (and I DO mean survive ) without Tax Credits and Housing Benefit and help with my childcare costs.

If anyone has ANY idea of the cost of childcare for a 14yo with SN's that isn't ready to be at home alone for 4hrs+ each night, they might have more clue just how impossible it is to do. Tax Credits don't cover 70% of MY childcare costs. They cover 45% if I'm lucky. And the remaining 55% is MORE THSN I CAN EARN!!

talkingpeace when I was getting full maternity pay with my first child and me and my dh were bringing home £3000 a month (or there abouts) we didn't claim child benefit. Our eldest is 5 so this is in its universal days. We only started claiming it when he was about 9 months old & my mat pay was reduced to nothing.
It seems to me that people are begruging others wanting a family or having kids. we cannot see into the future what our circumstances are going to be, had I known that we would struggle on one low wage after my dh losing his job (3 times in 6 years due to recession) & having to set up our own business to pay bills we would have done things a lot different pre children.
We had 7/8k savings that were wiped out moving to a better area with a nicer house but I wish we would have saved more when we could. Now we can't save and we get topped up with tax credits, but at least we are trying. Don't knock people who try please.
Once my children are full time at school my plan is to return to work and we will no long need tax credits etc and I will be more than happy to pay tax into the system for a family that does.

'vast majority of people benefits are a temporary stopgap, not a gateway to life as a welfare queen!

This ^

I don't understand why some people take umbrage at this.

Quite

And a large number of the remainder are either sick, disabled or carers. Not something anyone would deal with by choice.

And a large percent of those claiming HB / LHA are employed (I think Shelter stat was 80% of claimants are NOT unemployed- so employed low income, elderly or disabled / carer ), and after next eyar 'benefits' will equally coer working tax credits as income support under the same title of Universal Credit, so if you claim TCs be very aware that you are likely to hate yourself if you hate claimants.

I long for the day I go back to working, I hate dependence with a passion. The cuts push that furtehr away, not make it easier, as simple things like never getting a break day or night are attacking my health quite viciously atm. I;ve had to put a temp halt to driving, as I am falling voer a lot, and ofyten I am so exhausted I can't even talk; this sort of thing is recognised as being exceedingly common amongst carers. My Mum cares for Grandad and she has a bus journey to get to his palce, she has completely wrecked her back carrying his washing and shopping everywhere: if she ended up disabled from it then dad would ahve to pack in work and help her care and be cared for ...... cut back too much and you take people outside the job market.

of course it's a fine balance, there's only so much money and it hs to be spent right, but as with ATOS just becuase we know we need tests doesn;t mean the ones we have are suitable for purpose.

Same with the cuts we have right now.

I've always worked hard and encourage ny children to do the same. I think they should cut benefits and make anyone able to work do whatever job is available. If the unemployed think they shouldnt have to take a low paid job, they should work harder to earn more then.

DelhiCalling I have wonderful news for you.

The unemployed already do have to take whatever job is available. If they refuse their benefit can be cut.

Been like that for years.

There we go, problem sorted. Apart from your embarrassing ignorance.