To think if parents can't take their kids out of school for educational holidays then neither should schools

[Prarieflower]

I'm not talking about cheap field trips but expensive jaunts few can afford to places like ski-ing or in the MS case Hollywood,Disney and Rodeo Drive.

Aside from anything else(the unfairness when parents can't even take their own kids out for a one day museum trip) having my kids being taught by jet lagged,exhausted teachers on their return for little educational benefit to a handful is not acceptable imvho.

I am dreading this when my ds starts high school, I am sure he will want to go on holidays offered by the high school but whether we can afford them is another porblem we will have to come against unless we can pay in instalments which will help.

My eldest (now 22) went to France when he first started and loved every minute so I would love ds3 to be able to go.

I am not sure Disney counts as a Science trip though

Op I read about that school trip to LA and thought it was absolutely ridiculous.

It's a school not a travel agency. You can get culture change, learn new skills, team work, have fun in Britain on a holiday which all your pals can attend because it isn't too expensive and it isn't some school vanity project.

There was a thread a few days ago where the op was stressing about the cost of these trips. Surely it's healthier fur the school as a community to provide trips which everyone can attend, to fundraise to bring the cost down even further?

OK, OP, I'm going to try this one more time. The trip you are obsessed with was run by ONE school. If you would like to know the justification behind it, then you will have to ask them. The residential trips referred to are almost always run in school holidays. You have no business to be dictating what others do with their money and their own children.

If you dislike it so much, then you have an option- remove your children from the state system and home ed. Then you can take them away whenever you like.

The majority of posters on this thread disagree with you about trips. Why can you not accept that?

You are right about that, schools are places to learn. LA is 13 hours' flight, I remember going there in 2000 and it is just like any other big city with sun. We had a brilliant time touring around, visiting places like Yosemite, Grand Canyon and San Diego as well as the Hoover Dam and Death Valley (and Las Vegas ) staying in Travelodges as we went.

Keep the foreign trips to exchanges with pupils, far more enriching than sitting on a plane for hours.

Right Evil you can drop the patronising tone.I don't have to be bullied into accepting anything and this is 1 thread with a few teachers(who enjoy trips abroad) and a few minority wealthier parents who can afford such trips.

I know many,many people in RL and on MN who are getting hacked off with expensive enrichment week activities along with ridiculous trips abroad only a few go on and serve little purpose to the school as a whole.The whole thing is getting silly and sorry imo(which I'm entitled to) needs looking into as the vast maj of parents I know don't have kids who go on them and are getting fed up with trips getting more and more expensive and ludicrous.

Mum exactly!

Prairie - I agree.

But WHY DO YOU CARE?

And yes, it is necessary to "shout".

You are not being asked to subsidise them. You are under no obligation to send your DC on them. You say it's not a jealousy thing. Your DC's education is not suffering as a consequence of other people's DCs going on them. So why do you care? Seriously. Why?

Because it's unfair and sorry I think it does effect my dc.

I don't get why poorer kids can't have fun educational activities too if they're so crucial.The fact is it is way cheaper in term time and more affordable for many.The message being made here is poor kids need to sit at their desks every single day but richer kids are somehow entitled to time off.It's wrong.

Posters further down have said how much work goes into them and it is a lot of work whenever said trips happen.I don't want my dc's maths teacher anywhere other than in the classroom teaching my child unless it's for a trip that benefits all the children.I don't want said teacher tied up wasting planning time planning a trip my dc aren't going on, knackered on his return(I've done residential trips and they are knackering). I also would rather the money spent on said teacher's travel expenses,accommodation and meals spent on all the children.

Yes you don't need to shout,I don't need to home ed and parents who want these ridiculous trips to Outer Mongolia and alpine ski lodges can get themselves to the private sector-they clearly have money to burn.

Because part of an education is experiencing with your peers - rich and poor and to give children who are more disadvantaged, experiences they might not otherwise have.

This can be easily achieved through cheap well organised school trips. My school used to take us outward bound to Scotland every year.

Exactly aboutthe time and effort should be spent on thinking up creative ways to benefit all the children,every single one of them.

Are you going to continue to ignore the FACT that these overseas residentials go in school holidays?

Glad to see you've moved on from dictating how other people should deal with their kids and their money to dictating what teachers can and can't do. I spent Sunday making skirts for a school play. I still managed my marking and planning. The imaginary maths teacher who is organising a skiing trip can also do her planning and marking. You are getting ever more hysterical, and also continuing to contradict yourself. Perhaps you could give us a list of what you DO consider acceptable as school trips?

Frankly Eviltwins I think you are the hysterical one

Have you READ the thread? The OP agreed with your previous post, having disagreed with exactly thing you were talking about earlier on. Her original point was that ALL non-essential trips should be banned.

Ok, ok but it's only a thread about school trips...

Yup. I like organising school trips. Kids like going on school trips. Enhancing a child's experience is part of my job. I would be very if school trips stopped because they were "non-essential".

Excuse me if I join in.

My dd and her friends attended Alvechurch middle school.

The teacher who was responsible for the ski trips for over 25 years ensured as many of our working class kids could afford to go.

He kept and lent out kit, had easy payment weekly schemes and raised funds throughout the year to allow poorer kids to be included.

He was killed in the return trip from France in feb. my dd and friends were all injured, all the teachers and adults were injured.

That lovely teacher taught all of my 4 kids to ski, me and dh couldn't have afforded to take them.

Total respect for all out teachers who organise these trips.

If you don't want your kid to go don't send them. All holiday trips are out of term time anyway.

My child is going skiing next Feb half term. We don't want to ski, so are very happy for him to have a fantastic experience with his peers.

I would not take my dc's out of school term time. Their school work is far too important.

And you sound very bitter OP.

just to answer the Ofsted question; schools are now now judged on "When reporting, inspectors must also consider:the spiritual, moral, social and cultural development of pupils at the school". full details here

As a department we are expected to arrange trips/visits that can enhance our subject area this usually means that we go somewhere that is linked to our subject but the whole day is not just about the subject but also to enjoy.experience something different from their normal day-to-day life. Other subjects are able to run residential visits that take place during the school holidays (for which teachers do without pay); again not all the time is spent exclusively on what you may call 'educational' in terms of the subject in charge of the trip but it does help the social and cultural development of students.

There is significant educational values to be had by foreign trips; for example there are lots of schools that run trips to the states through the business studies department. They take in visits to the UN, visits to businesses to help them understand more about importing/exporting/exchange rates/influences on business in the UK among others. They also take in a show, visit the 'sights' and have fun whilst experiencing a different culture that they then take with them for the rest of their lives - just like Ofsted want!

Prairie,, I have never heard of a school that only runs trips for a minority of their pupils... If this was the case the trip wouldn't be feasible as no one could afford to go.

Because it's unfair and sorry I think it does effect my dc.

How exactly? Because they realise they can't do everything? Important life lesson. There will be some trips they CAN do.

I don't get why poorer kids can't have fun educational activities too if they're so crucial.

They can and do. This is why schools fundraise/ use hardship funds/weekly payment systems etc.

Bit at the end of the day these trips cost money to run. The school does not make a profit on them! And in life there will always be a monetary inequality.

The fact is it is way cheaper in term time and more affordable for many.The message being made here is poor kids need to sit at their desks every single day but richer kids are somehow entitled to time off.It's wrong.

Bollocks.

Posters further down have said how much work goes into them and it is a lot of work whenever said trips happen.I don't want my dc's maths teacher anywhere other than in the classroom teaching my child unless it's for a trip that benefits all the children.

The majority of children will benefit from some form of school trip during their school career. There is no evidence to suggest that these trips are harming educational standards. There is a very good reason that you, with your level of non existent expertise are not in charge of staffing. thank god

I don't want said teacher tied up wasting planning time planning a trip my dc aren't going on,
See above. + teachers are not there solely for your kids benefit.

knackered on his return(I've done residential trips and they are knackering).
They are knackering. So is having a young family. Should we ban mothers from work? Or teachers from going out late on school nights? Don't be so bloody patronising.

I also would rather the money spent on said teacher's travel expenses,accommodation and meals spent on all the children.

This money comes from the parents of the kids who are going on the trip not the general budget.

Yes you don't need to shout,I don't need to home ed
Shouting at you is bloody tempting though. I don't think you need to home ed, but you can borrow my grip if you want.

and parents who want these ridiculous trips to Outer Mongolia and alpine ski lodges can get themselves to the private sector-they clearly have money to burn.

Can you not see the difference between a family who can afford £800 quid (once, with the benefit of a payment plan) and those who can afford 5grand a term + school trips in the independent sector? Because frankly, if you can't, this discussion is pointless.

My ds is going on a residential trip for 4 days with school, we can pay either in instalments or in one fell swoop. I think it should be cheaper as they are going in January when the weather is bound to be horrible and half the activities will not be running. Apparently the school could not get any other time due to other schools having pre-booked and the kids are in Year 6 so won't have another opportunity to go.

Oh well, am sure they will enjoy it even if there is snow.

Felicity,, absolutely, totally and excellent points.