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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think if parents can't take their kids out of school for educational holidays then neither should schools

129 replies

Prarieflower · 30/09/2012 08:28

I'm not talking about cheap field trips but expensive jaunts few can afford to places like ski-ing or in the MS case Hollywood,Disney and Rodeo Drive.

Aside from anything else(the unfairness when parents can't even take their own kids out for a one day museum trip) having my kids being taught by jet lagged,exhausted teachers on their return for little educational benefit to a handful is not acceptable imvho.

OP posts:

BoneyBackJefferson · 30/09/2012 13:49

Prarieflower

"I just think there should be strict regulations and schools should be accountable to OFSTED re trips-maybe they already are in which case perhaps it needs to be tightened up more."

The driving force behind the trips is OFSTED.

Quite frankly OP, you need to grind your axe elsewhere.

clam · 30/09/2012 14:11

"DS school has a trip to an amusement park for those who have perfect attendance/good grades/etc."

So my dd, who suffered last year with a debilitating virus causing migraine headaches and whose attendance at school was patchy as a result, misses out and those who have been fortunate enough to enjoy good health get a reward?

EvilTwins · 30/09/2012 14:20

Clam- it did say attendance/good grades.

We do rewards at the end of term (usually a DVD in the hall) and it's for students who have worked hard. The HOY decides who gets to go it. A DC who had been off due to illness but had worked to the best of their ability when in school would still get the reward. Don't make this another thread about 100% attendance being rewarded because that clearly wasn't the point being made.

Original poster

Prarieflower · 30/09/2012 14:31

Boney I doubt very much OFSTED are a driving force behind very expensive holidays that the maj can't go on,aren't needed and have no benefit towards the curriculum.

OP posts:

clam · 30/09/2012 14:37

eviltwins perhaps, but a number of posters have mentioned "otherwise good attendance" as being some sort of justification for a term-time trip, whether it's organised by school or family.

EvilTwins · 30/09/2012 14:37

OP, seriously, get over it. Until it starts impacting on you, what business is it of yours? If I choose to send my DTDs on the school skiing trip when they are old enough, what is that to do with you? If my DTDs choose to put their birthday money towards that, or my in-laws choose to put something towards it, that's my business.

As a teacher, I will continue to organise trips, for educational reasons, or simply to give them a new or exciting experience. Education cannot be measured purely in exam grades, nor should it.

EvilTwins · 30/09/2012 14:40

Clam - fair enough. I think that "good attendance" should ALWAYS be looked at in relation to the individual child.

clam · 30/09/2012 15:46

Mind you, it does amuse me when people on here try to make out that their kids will be "experiencing another culture" on their term-time holiday at an all-inclusive resort in Malaga.

ItsMeYourCathy · 30/09/2012 15:47

I've just typed a huge message to add to this thread but I think it all boils down to this: OP. Here's my grip. You can borrow it if you like. Now go and concern yourself with something you actually know about.

McHappyPants2012 · 30/09/2012 16:03

From these threads over the weekend I now know they exists.

I am now going to open a saving account and start putting £5 in a week. This will cover school trips, so hopefully dc will get to go on a holiday I know I will never get to go on.

I am glad the school do this, it will be a fantastic opportunity.

McHappyPants2012 · 30/09/2012 16:04

Btw my so is 6 and dd 3 so plenty of time to save

BoneyBackJefferson · 30/09/2012 16:11

Prarieflower

You can doubt it all you like, but OFSTED don't just want the 5 minutes down the road trips they want the big extravagant trips as well.

Felicitywascold · 30/09/2012 20:59

Prairie how much educational theory have you actually read?

How many education research thesis have you read?

How many ofsted/dept. of education reports into school trips have you read?

Why is it you think that the issue hasn't already been 'looked into' and policies been put into place. 'Non-essential' trips enrich the curriculum and the pupil as a whole. Yes, wouldn't it be great if everyone could afford everything. But the fact is the world doesn't work like that.

A higher % if families can afford school trips than can afford the equivalent if they have to go as a whole family.

School organised can be planned properly in the curriculum, individual parents doing it cannot. This is logistical.

Should parents who 'can' stop buying their children more expensive clothes because some families can only afford supermarket ones?

Original poster

Prarieflower · 30/09/2012 22:27

Felicity I'm not talking about the maj of non essential trips that enrich the curriculum but the high end ridiculous trips that are highly questionable re enriching and almost the entire majority don't go on.

As I said if such trips are so important parents should be able to take their own kids out for their own cheaper version.

OP posts:

EvilTwins · 30/09/2012 22:40

But why do you care and what's it got to do with you anyway?

You have given no reasons why YOU should be able to dictate what others choose to do with their money and their DC. You have been presented with a variety of reasons that school-organised visits may be preferable to family holidays and why schools organise such trips. You have ignored these and continue to insist that trips should be essential/close to home. Oh, except actually you've chopped and changed on that one- earlier on you said that trips should only go ahead if they're essential, then later changed your mind. At one point you said that tips should be UK based, now Europe is ok. I can't keep up.

boschy · 30/09/2012 22:59

Havent read whole thread and cba (had wine).... but my DD1 is skiing with school (again) this year, and part of her trip includes a section of her PE GCSE - she will be assessed on her skiing performance. So she will a) have a fantastic time b) be doing something we wouldnt/cant afford to do as a family and c) it will contribute to her results.

I think teachers who organise and attend these trips are fantastic and cant thank them enough. Plus, there is the social/emotional benefit of going to a different country, being with people you dont necessarily know that well and having to get on with them etc etc.

boschy · 30/09/2012 23:13

Right have actually read whole thread now and think OP that you are being a little bit hysterical.

If you don't want to send your children on what you perceive as non-essential trips that is your right, just as it is the right of other parents who can see wider benefits to choose to do so.

And can I please say thank you again to the teachers who put all the graft in to making sure these trips are well-organised, safe and a fabulous experience for the students.

DayShiftDoris · 30/09/2012 23:48

OP you are being a little hysterical but I will add this...

What about the children 'left behind'...
There are always children who have families who, with the best will in the world, can not afford for them to go or children who can not go because of medical or additional needs.

Its no fun being left behind and managing what could be come a bullying situation must be an absolute nightmare for the school.

Felicitywascold · 01/10/2012 18:28

Well that is a rather watered down version of everything else you have said

The fact is, these high end trips have a huge intrinsic value- which is why people who can afford it send their kids. And this type of trip is rarely held in school term time.

'Highly questionable' is your definition not the definition of the education professionals who plan and run them.

But if the majority don't go, (which is a shame- but inequality is a part of life). Then what the blasted heck does it actually matter? They continue to receive their education for 195 days as usual.

Original poster

Prarieflower · 01/10/2012 18:40

How do trips to theme parks for a few have intrinsic value to the entire school and why can't other parents take their kids out on educational experiences they an afford?

OP posts:

EvilTwins · 01/10/2012 18:50

Because parents can do that at the weekend, or in school holidays. That is what they are for.

Original poster

Prarieflower · 01/10/2012 18:56

Not at holiday prices they can't.

I can't see why it's fair that kids can go ski-ing with school and not with their family in term time(which does happen).

Any educational out of school experience is valuable and if a few privileged kids are allowed out during term time I fail to see why others can't do the same.If only a small percentage are doing a trip it isn't crucial to any curriculum.

OP posts:

EvilTwins · 01/10/2012 19:01

So this IS about cheap holidays then.

EvilTwins · 01/10/2012 19:03

And anyway, OP, you're not advocating fairness for all, you've already said this doesn't extend to teachers.

Original poster

Prarieflower · 01/10/2012 19:09

or plenty of other people with taking holiday conditions(like my dp).Plenty of benefits to being a teacher,being able to take holidays in term time isn't one of them.

It's about fairness and the value put on educational experiences for the wealthy but not the less wealthy who apparently should never miss a day off school for an educational experience but a few who can afford it can.

OP posts:

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