To think if parents can't take their kids out of school for educational holidays then neither should schools

[Prarieflower]

I'm not talking about cheap field trips but expensive jaunts few can afford to places like ski-ing or in the MS case Hollywood,Disney and Rodeo Drive.

Aside from anything else(the unfairness when parents can't even take their own kids out for a one day museum trip) having my kids being taught by jet lagged,exhausted teachers on their return for little educational benefit to a handful is not acceptable imvho.

This is going back 25 years but our (crappy comprehensive) school skiiing trip was in Feb half term. I have never been able to afford to go again.

Evil why would you have to cancel a cheap poetry writing trip to a graveyard?Those sort of affordable trips which benefit the curriculum I see the point of.

You're misreading- I did the poetry thing when I was at school. The residential I am organising for my own 6th formers is different.

You're being very specific with your objections- who are you to decide what is educational and what is not? Every year, our A Level Business Studies groups go to Alton Towers. They have lectures and take part in workshops about the business side of things - it's all on their website if you would like to see, and THEN have time for rides. So is that educational, in your view, or not?

DD1's school take all Y7 girls to Paris each year. They go to Park Asterix, and sightseeing in Paris.

In her friendship group, one girl had never been abroad before. She is from a low income family, and the chance to go was one she might otherwise not have had.

There are residential trips to PGL and staying in Youth Hostels in Y8 and Y9, so these are reasonably affordable.

There is a Head's discretionary fund which can be used to pay for school trips which the family cannot afford. You access this via the Head, herself, ie no one but the decision maker and the family knows anything about it.

If you can't afford to go to on these trips, you are not allowed to apply to go on the ski trip, ie the educational trips are given a priority over the "fun" one.

Evil I don't know.Is it affordable for all,could it be done cheaper elsewhere,is it vital?Yes who am I to say what is right-maybe OFSTED should start looking into it because I don't think some of these trips are a good use of resources and to be frank always necessary.

I just think it's getting ridiculous re trips.Also poorer kids should be able to have access to out of school educational experiences too,not just rich kids.The cost of some of these trips are double what we spent on a camping trip for 5.If they are so essential then surely poorer families should be allowed to have time out of school do "educational"things with their family.

£800 would go a loooong way in our family on an educational holiday out of school hours.

Not all of these trips are planned for the school holidays and as others have mentioned they take up a lot of work so they should be fully justified particularly when just a few benefit from them.If ski-ing is sooo important to people they should organise it themselves. Last I heard having experienced ski-ing wasn't crucial in having a good education.If it is it needs to be organised so all kids experience it.

Can anybody explain the possible reasons for a school trip to Florida Disney parks,Sunset Strip and Rodeo Drive for a few?

I don't think it should possible for such a trip to be organised by a state funded school.Sorry.

Sorry not Florida parks-the other ones.

You need to stop assuming everyone is like you. OK, so YOU would spend less than a school skiing trip on a family camping holiday. Not every parent is you. I teach kids whose parents would never DREAM of taking them on a camping holiday- they can't be bothered or they wouldn't know how. Maybe they're ill, maybe they have a controlling partner, maybe they wouldn't have the first clue where to get a tent from. Your outrage is misplaced, IMO, as you are only looking at your own situation. I teach kids who only get taken ANYWHERE when school takes them.

Prarieflower they are not ESSENTIAL but they are exceeding nice to go on. OMG. Missing the point somewhat. Get yourself onto the other thread as this is the ski-trip thread take 2.

Your family camping trip was not essential was it? But I bet you are very happy you were able to provide that opportunity to you DCs. Having 3 DCs is not essential. But I'm sure it's very nice for you even f it means you can't go on more holidays. Having a bit of flapjack in a packed lunch isn't essential, but it is very nice.

It would be a huge shame if we only did things that were essential.

Which is why said trips should be justifiable.

Sorry I fail to see how offering a £100 a night trip to Sunset strip or ski-ing is giving kids access to more experiences.Dp is on a decent wage and we couldn't afford it,ditto most people I know. The vast maj of kids won't be going thus making the trip pointless.Only rich kids with money to burn will be going.

Um, it's not as if every school runs that specific trip, is it? IME, schools organise trips that will get take up. Presumably, there ARE parents who can afford that trip at that school, and parents who see the value in it (educational or whatever).

Do you have a DC who wants to go on a trip you can't afford? Is THAT what this is about?

You haven't addressed my points, OP. Frankly, if your answer to these trips is that everyone should simply go off for a jolly family camping trip, the you have no grip on reality.

Last year one of my dc's went skiing, had an amazing time. For me to take all of us (family of 6) would have cost a whole lot more than I paid. Plus, he was the only one of my dc's interested in skiing. So for me to organize it myself would have meant someone dissapointed.

Some of the trips my dc's have been on have been educational - Boston, Japan, Italy, France, Uk. Whereas some have just been to have fun. What is wrong with having fun with peers?

The school cannot just decide oh lets go to Disneyland on a jolly. They have to set out valid reasons why that trip will be good, and what the students will get out of it amongst other things.

Same with schools allowing students time out for educational reasons, they look at the overall picture. I know someone who was able to take lo out for 2 weeks to go to Egypt, parents also handed in a itinerary of what they would be doing and how it related to education. Whereas another family just said they wanted to go France for a couple of days for educational reasons, they would be staying at the Disney resort, but failed to mention why it would be educational and was refused.

Evil then said very wealthy parents should organise such trips themselves instead of taking time/resources away from the maj who can't.They aren't necessary and sorry I have little sympathy for the kids of loaded parents who allegedly never take their kids anywhere.

Sorry Ihear you're clearly wealthy,the vast maj couldn't afford to send their dc to Boston,Japan etc.

No have always paid for everything,my kids are in primary so this isn't an issue yet.

Siblings of SN kids often only get to go to places cos school are able to take them. Likewise child carers. These are two groups of kids whose social needs often get overlooked throughout their childhoods. Finances actually have very little to do with it (though a disability in the family tends to create a much higher child poverty risk generally!).

My French exchange wasn't an expensive trip, but there was no way my parents travel to other parts of the UK for years on end, let alone abroad for a family trip. Their opportunities to do the things they would have liked were limited by my siblings SN's and their caring responsibilities.

I couldn't do the expensive ski trips etc due to family finances, but I did get to go abroad just the one time during my childhood thanks to the opportunity of that French exchange. Not only was it educational, (I went from bottom set to getting an A when GCE's came around) but it was a chance to experience the outside world with my friends and a step towards independence, that I would never otherwise have had. The skills I learnt stood me in good stead for Uni.

I wish people would just get over the green-eyed monster. My own child isn't raised to be constantly envious but just to be happy with what he does have. He's unlikely ever to be able to manage a residential trip cos of his SN's - doesn't mean he won't be able to wave his mates off & be pleased for them. To do otherwise is to raise a person to be constantly discontented with their lot, and that's actually cruel in the long run as your child will never be a happy adult.

I'm the first to criticise the educational system in some respect, but teachers have lives too, yet their time is given generously and freely towards all the work that goes into school trips. It's voluntary - they lose time with their own families etc, etc, just to be moaned at constantly. I do sometimes wonder why they bother!

No one asked you to have sympathy. YOU started this thread! And you have spectacularly missed my point about the parents of the kids I teach. Their parents are not rich. Many are the sort who simply don't take their kids anywhere. Seriously, I teach teenagers who have NEVER left the city in which they live.

You need to take the chip off your shoulder and accept that not everyone thinks like you.

I'm not talking about French exchanges(fairly cheap due to limited accommodation issues)which is exactly the sort of trip I think should be encouraged.

It's also not a case of the green eyed monster.If I couldn't afford a valuable,reasonably priced trip the maj of kids went on I'd just accept it what I find unacceptable is my kids loosing their maths teacher whilst he bogs off to Sunset Strip with a few wealthy kids.I resent the time said teacher would spend on such a trip before and after(for a few),the upheaval whilst he was away(for the maj) and his tiredness on his return(during a personal holiday in the hols you'd get some time to relax) not so a school trip.

It's a complete waste of time and resources.

Is your child badgering you to go on a trip like this? No.
Are you a teacher being forced to go on a trip like this? No.
Are you being asked to subsidise someone else to go on this kind of trip? No.

So, um, why does it bother you so much?

My kids will badger and be disrupted for such non essential trips eventually and in these economic times schools should be justifying the use of time and resources. People do in private business so it isn't unreasonable to expect the same in schools.

There simply isn't the money for schools to waste time or resources.

Sorry but you're starting to sound a bit obsessed.

Haha I am not wealthy. I just new when I had my first dc 19 years ago, that schools do these trips and every month I squirreled away money. I new because when I was in school they had these trips. And as I said, it works out cheaper to send that one child to where ever than send all of us. We speak as a family and decide which trips they can and cannot go on, although incidentally they all went camping with school and hated it so much they begged me to never let them go again lol.

There has also been a number of trips they haven't been on. But they accepted that this is life and didn't have a major strop about it either. Most trips have been in the school holidays, and the ones that haven't been they have returned on the Friday. They have the weekend to recover.

Are you also this moody when the teacher is off sick and a substitute is used then? Or don't you think it is the same. If not why not?

Prarieflower you sound sound very jealous of people who can afford to send their kids away with school. You say your DH is on a decent wage, are you too? If not, why not? What was the reasoning for having so many DCs (inferred from a 'family of 5')?

Families make different choices and you should stop being so mean spirited about those that have made choices that have enabled them to pay for a fucking £800 school trip.

Some families don't have a spare £10 in the budget. For some £1k isn't a big deal.

My bro was 12 years older than me. School trips were ace for him as hoday weren't limited by his baby sister. School trips were ace for me as he had left home by the time I was in secondary school and it was quite boring on my own sometimes.

Cheaper for mum and dad to let me go away with school than for 3 or us to go away skiing (which they don't do anyway). Then they could save their holiday allowance for things like visiting my brother, seeing grandparents etc.

I was shocked when I read about the Megan Stammers school trip too. They stayed at a £100 a night hotel that had had some Hollywood heavyweights as guests before (can't be bothered to be googling now, I've forgotten who) etc. Sounds ridiculous. I can afford to take my children on trips like that, I don't think there's any need for the school to do it.

Prarieflower if your children will badger you for things the family can't afford, then you could do with bringing them up to be more understanding of your families situation. Perhaps emphases the positives of your family life and the positive aspects of your choices that have led to you not being able to afford for them to go away with school.

No Evil I just have a different opinion to yours as do many other parents who're getting mighty pissed off with it.

Ihear if you can Squirrel £££££ for trips to Japan,Boston etc you're a lot wealthier than most.Also life is very different now to what it was 19 years ago.

Schools can't help staff sickness-they can help wasted resources and upheaval through non essential trips for a privileged few.