to be shocked that I heard the teacher shouting this to a primary age child?

[CrapBag]

I was in the school the other day. A class were having PE, I don't know what age group. It was a male teacher with a particularly loud shouty voice. From the shouting I established that a boy had cut in the line (they were lining up to leave the hall). The teacher really shouted at this boy about cutting in and how rude it was etc etc, really going for it. Then we heard "YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A BULLY" shouted to this lad.

I know I don't know this child, he may be a bully. I don't know the context other than he cut in line at the end of PE but I was quite horrifed really to hear a teacher shout, and I do mean shout as in bellow, at this lad and call him this.

I must admit I am a fan of labelling the behaviour rather than the child. I am by no means a perfect parent but if DS is playing up, I will always tell him that what he is doing is naughty etc, not that he is naughty.

I wouldn't have been at all happy had this been my DC. I know it wasn't as mine is in reception and this was an older class.

Should I be shocked? Am I just being too precious at my first born being at school now?

I was doing a course in the next room.

I do apologize, I should have guessed that a primary school was running a course for non staff.

Glad my dds school doesn't

Agentzigzag, no it wasn't to you.

But having said that, I don't see that bullying behaviour being labelled as such is humiliating, I see it as something that needs pointed out. And if a bullying child does find it humiliating, then so what? His/her bullying is probably pretty humiliating for his/her victims. If it makes them think twice, then I'm fine with that. And yes, I would say the same if it was my own child. I hope with all my heart that I will manage to raise them not to be bullies, but if they are, then they certainly will deserve to be told about it, and if that involves being shouted at by a teacher than so be it.

Yes to your last two sentences.

What? Yes I should be shocked and yes I am being precious? Doesn't really make sense.

sookie you made it sound like I was randomly wandering around a school unsupervised, I corrected you and told you why I was there.

Sounds like the teacher had just about had enough. I'll bet any other time he would have labelled the behaviour and not the child.
Those of us that work in schools are only human and depite spending 99% of the time doing and saying the right thing,occasionally these things slip out ,out of duress and frustration.
But y'know, you obviously think that this child is now totally damaged for life...

I did make sound anything, I asked why you were there. I was there, the other mners would assume i wasn't there so how can I make out you did anything?

TBF, why a non member of staff is in the school is an important point.

What did the others on your course say?

I probably wouldn't mind hearing that if my child was constantly being victimised by the boy in question.

It's a tough one really because as much as I think the adult loses control the moment they start shouting...I also think there would be less teenagers in senior school with a "You can't touch me, you can't shout at me, I can do whatever I want" kind of attitude.

As much as not everything in the 'good old days' was good at all, I do think that children were far better disciplined in general in the past.

I think it was mainly because teachers were in control and were mostly backed by parents.

For all we know that little boy might look back one day and think "Thank fuck someone had the balls to tell me what a little shit I was being".

duh i wasn't there.

"But y'know, you obviously think that this child is now totally damaged for life..."

Yes thats what I said . Not sure I can be bothered anymore.

You're not being precious wondering what kinds of strategies the teachers at the school your DD goes to use to deal with 'bad' behaviour OP.

I would say that was very caring, if they deal with bullying like this then what else do they do?

Are you of the thinking that if a child bites you you should bite them back theninja? Because what you're saying is the same thing, there are better ways of teaching a child that lashing out can affect other people and make them feel shit.

I loathe children being humiliated in front of other people/their peers, it's not a solution to anything and shows a total lack of control.

We constantly have people wandering around our school; parents collecting children, parent volunteers in classes, parents sorting out library, fruit or other stuff, work experience, random workmen, students, PTA.
It's like Big Brother sometimes, everywhere you go there's someone observing.

theninjabreadma very, very, well said!

Seriously, I find it utter nonsense to suggest that a bully should be dealt with kids glove for fear of humiliating them. No wonder bullies continue to make other kids lives hell. Then they grow up and get into more trouble until they meet someone who will not put up with their rubbish. They bully others at the workplace and they are generally miserable people with terrible home lives. Children with a wholesome home life do not behave like that.

My poor husband was bullied at school and even to this day, he is still affected by it. It breaks my heart to hear his stories. As for me, I took no rubbish for bullies. Any time they targeted me, I gave them what they fully deserved. I grew up with three brothers so I knew how to defend myself. Though I am slight in build, I took down both male and female. My father used to say to us, 'I am not working hard to feed you so that you can get beaten up at school'.

I feel nothing but righteous indignation when I hear of bullies making people's lives hell and even playing the victim when they are brought to book.

I can tell you this, the day anyone bullies my son, they, their parents, and the school will not be at peace until the problem is resolved. I don't look for trouble, but if it comes knocking on my door, I will mount up a defense.

Bullies are the a cancer to society and they need to be challenged! Calling them bullies is a very mild rebuke in my book.

Our school is really strict about parents (or rather non staff) wondering around or being in the school during lessons.
Your child is brought to reception if they need picking up, you would escorted into school and back out if you need to enter.

Except there's no evidence at all that shouting at a child and telling them 'you're nothing but a bully' has anything to do with 'being in control'. If anything, it's evidence of the opposite. Insisting on discipline & good behaviour has nothing to do with shouting & name calling.

Lots of schools train school Governors from around the local area in spare classrooms/libraries and I doubt the parents even know this.

Well the parents in my DS's school don't know this anyway.

It's not a secret or anything...they just don't need to know and all the people are signed in and out anyway.

no, I am not 'the sort of person' who would suggest biting a child back if they bit me. Its a massive leap from what I was saying, to suggesting that I condone that, I don't think those two things are alike at all.

Bullies want to make other children feel shit, thats why they do it. So where is the value in sitting them down nicely and telling them that they are making someone else feel shit? Bullies relish that, it lets them know that their behaviour is having the effect that they want it to have. Whereas the teacher letting them know that they are onto them might actually make them think twice.

Something has just occured to me here.

Everyone is saying I had just that snap shot, yes that is true. But so have you and nearly all seem to be assuming that this child is a bully. He may not be actually so we shouldn't just assume that it is justified. Yes ok, if it was at the end of a very long campaign of bullying by this child, the teacher may, and I stress may, be justified in using the phrase he did, but actually, it could also have been the teacher saying that for him cutting in line. The teacher had already pointed out to him how rude it was and other things (can't remember the rest of what was said).

I also can't stand bullies. Bullying at school is one of my biggest fears for my children. If I think that DS is being bullied I will be on it with the school, but likewise if DS bullies (and I sincerely hope I am bringing him up to know better than that) then I will be clamping down on him too, I am not one of these parents who thinks that their precious children should never be told off by a teacher etc etc.

I was bullied all through school and am still affected by it now MoRaw, and I've been talking to DDs school today about the bullying she's had that's followed her from primary.

It makes me fucking furious, I want to get my own back on the people who did it to me and stop those doing it to DD.

But that's why I shouldn't be anywhere near the policies schools have in place to deal with bullying, because it's not about bullying the bullies back, or vengeance, it's about stopping their behaviour and making them a better person.

Humiliating them and labelling them as a bully so they may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb isn't the way to go.

The name of the game is to give them a chance to become someone who doesn't get attention for being shitty.

You would think the same about my friend who yelled the same to the child she was teacher of, however he was a bully and had only five minutes previously grabbed a girl around her neck and squeezed her hard-leaving marks. When my friend told him to go to the head teacher and wait there (so she could take the girl aside and call someone to cover her), he pushed the girl-and would have appeared just 'pushy to anyone watching from that point- not realising my friend had seen him and told her they were just 'playing'.

He was a nasty bully, ended up being excluded, the poor kids had so many bruises and were terrified of him but my friends hands were tied in so many ways because of people who don't believe in labeling bullies. Luckily, she complained to her union and a rep came to kick everything into excluding and expelling him.

Sorry, misread both your last two sentences and my own reply. Er....yes YABU.

Wth would a teacher call a child a bully for no reason? Would he say it out of the blue to someone who is quiet and timid? Or would he say it to someone who IS a bully and cut infront/pushed infront of a quiet obedient member of the class? I'm thinking the latter, and he probably deserved it. Good on the teacher.

I have made no comment on whether child is a bully or not.

But I would assume, until shown otherwise, that the teacher had good reason to say what he did.

My point was that you actually have no idea what was happening in a room where you could only hear part of what happened and couldn't see it all.

AgentZigzag so how successful has the softly, softly, poor little bullies approach has been? All that sitting them down, talking to them nicely, etc appear to be doing very little good because the problem is getting worse. Not only that, these bullies continue this behaviour into adulthood.

Some bullies even end up killing their victims.

So I am not convinced this let's be gentle with them actually works. What they need is a reality check and for people to make it clear that they are not putting up with their behaviour. They need to be called out and to be name and shamed. It may be the best thing that happens to them to get them to change. Bullies only bully those who put up with their rubbish. Bullies tend not to bother those who put them straight. FACT!

I take your point CrapBag, about assuming that he was actually was a bully.

By way of explanation, I took this approach because I like to give teachers the benefit of the doubt. They are only human, and sometimes they reach the end of their tether. But if routinely shouting at the children in his class is his only means of dealing with the class, then yes, certainly you would have grounds for concern.