For thinking i shouldn't be getting constantly pestered by the local nurse and GP team to get my daughter immunises when i've repeatedly told them my answer is no?

[Lowla]

My daughter is 4. She got all her jabs as a baby, but i stopped at the MMR one. Since we missed the appointment, i've been getting loads of letters to invite us to the clinic for the MMR jab and now her school booster jab for some other virus. (Hib or something like that).

I've phoned the GP and asked them not to send any more letters out as i've chosen not to get her immunised any further for my own personal reasons, and worries over her last reactions to the jabs. And now i've got some nurse calling me asking to do a home visit next week to 'check on me and dd'. I asked 'is this about the jabs?' and she said, rather reluctantly, 'yes'.

AIBU for feeling like they should respect my decision?

Sorry for the bad grammar. Writing this in a rush as i have to run and get dd from school.

*illnesses

Hmm, I asked about the HPV vaccine just a few days ago. Most people were happy to answer questions but I did get a few shoving the guilt thing down my throat even though I had stated I was very open minded and just wanted to know more.

It's an emotive topic it seems.

What sort of society would we be if we forced mothers to vaccinate children? Where would it end? What is right for one parent is not right for another. You cannot force anyone to vaccine their child and that is how it should be. Name calling and shaming won't make any difference, it just makes people feel more defensive.

On my thread, even though I was open minded and in the end chose to sign the consent form for dd, some of the responses did raise my hackles and I found myself defending a position I previously didn't have.

Course all this will fall on deaf ears, but if you really want to make a convincing argument either way then you do so with reason, with tolerance and with evidence. Not by reverting back to a 10yo.

Rhubarb, re the HPV vaccine, I was in two minds about it too. In the end I left the decision to the DDs. DD2 has just had her's, at age 15 - she went to the surgery and had it done, DD1 chose to have her's last year, at the age of 18. She made the choice to delay having it, as her year was one of the first to be offered it, and there were reports of deaths. They were both aware of the pros and cons, and I felt it should be their decision.

Well said, Rhubarb. I'm not sure anyone has ever changed their opinion as a result of being shouted at or shouted down, tbh.

(And I'm strongly in favour of the HPV vaccine, having interviewed one of the lead researchers and other experts.)

Yanbu. Just tell them no and that you have no interest in discussing the matter any further. They have no right to force you to take you dd for the jab or to visit your house to pressure you about it.

And more's the pity.

" She's so superior about every single one of her parenting choices as well and completely falls into the "every other child has been vaccinated so I don't need to risk my DCs" category i.e. the MMR is too risky for her DCs but great that everyone else has had it done so her DCs don't risk catching the ilnesses. "

Given the levels of vaccine take-up in some areas and for some purposes that isnt even a particularly safe option to take.
I felt that it made my own decisions about vaccines easier in some cases, because I was pretty sure (especially with the MMR) that I was actually making things better for my own children, rather than something more abstract to do with herd immunity.

I had whooping cough as a small child because I had not been vaccinated as a result of a scare around that vaccine at the time. I was very young, but still remember how horribly ill I was with it.

YABU. And selfish and irresponsible.

In the US your child would not be allowed to attend school without immunizations. It should be the same here

some places have a lot of TB

Ever travel by train or bus?

YY mellen, whooping cough is miserable. I remember my neighbour's children having it when I was a teenager - we could hear the poor things hacking from ten houses away. My Mother was very disapproving of their mother for not having them vaccinated.

There are some really nasty people on this thread. I'd like to see them sit by their child in hospital for days after a vaccination (on several occasions, not just one), and then take them to be jabbed again without a single qualm. If the OP was 'antivax', as she's been so sneeringly called, she wouldn't be in this position of fear now would she?

I bet you wouldn't like to see them sitting beside their child in hospital, whilst they were seriously ill with a preventable disease though. In fact I doubt very much that they'd like to have spent the last six weeks with my DD and her whooping cough. They'd soon realise that a reaction to a vaccination was a damn sight less awful than the actual disease they're being vaccinated against.

Nobody has said that children who shouldn't be vaccinated are the problem. The problem lies with selfish people who refuse to get their children vaccinated because they rely on others to provide herd immunity. The sort of arrogant idiots who think they know better than people who have studied all their lives to attain the relevant knowledge.

Pixel, I agree. And I say that as someone who had whooping cough this year, and whose son didn't... presumably because he was immune after vaccination. I am so grateful for it. Grateful to live in a country where you can just take your child along to be protected, for nothing.

I agree she should engage with the healthcare professionals. But irresponsible, selfish and stupid, because she wants to delay vaccination after spending two nights by her unconscious child's bedside? When that child reacted after every shot?

If any parent here is claiming they'd have no concerns whatsoever in her shoes, I think they are avoiding actually thinking about it. Of course they would - what decent parent wouldn't? It must have been hell for her and of course she is chary of any repeats.

I think she should ask to have her child's immunity checked, as she may not need the boosters so it might not even be an issue. And I think she should ask to be referred to a specialist for a discussion on it all, even if only by phone, so she can get some idea of what the thinking is. For all we know, they may decide her child is one of those best protected by herd immunity, anyway - I get those appointment letters after my child's vaccinations, because I always make an appointment bang on the right age, and our local authority makes them for us at times and dates that are never convenient to me. It is hardly a personalised response to your individual child. But the yelling will, I would think, mean she is not reading this any more and is not interested in ever talking vaccination to anyone ever again. Complete own goal.

(Though I do say pro and anti vax. Not from sneering, just from laziness. Issa long word! )

Some here seem to be missing the point I was making andi think the op is too. Ferbile seizures are on the whole harmless but what no one seems to be able to answer is why some children get them after every jab. I am well aware of the dangers of measles but I would also like some explanation as to why ds reacts so badly not just well it's better than getting measles and no one gives it to you it is a very very hard decision to make when you are in this position

Freudianslipper, children's hospitals have immunology departments. In my experience, HCP are very approachable if you are a parent with a genuine question and real reason for concern. Maybe email a couple and ask for guidance?

There is also the option of emailing the researcher whose email is at the bottom of this relevant article. She reported on a cohort study on febrile seizures post-vaccination. She may not want to engage, but in my experience medical researchers are very willing to talk to people with genuine concerns around their research area, and she would be very well placed to address your concerns, or signpost you to someone else who could. After all, nobody dedicates their professional life to an academic research area that bores them. This paediatrician has also reported on studies in this exact area. Maybe try both, with the courteous explanation that you completely understand if they just don't have time to engage in correspondence on this issue?

I do understand your position is a hard one. It isn't fair to dismiss concerns by another parent about their own child's health, saying they are selfish if they don't put your child's health first. Seems a tad ironic, actually. I want people to vaccinate for selfish reasons, too, but if I were afraid my child might be in the rare group who really shouldn't be, I'd want reassurance on that point myself. I hope you have some joy with getting more info.

Perfect storm - you speak wise words.

Surely the question isnt why some children have fc after vaccines. The answer is obvious. Vaccines cause fever and some children react to a sharp rise in temperature with fc. The question should be why do some children have them in tge first place. There is a large genetic element.
At least with a vaccine you know they can have a fever as a side effect and you can look out for a reaction in the next few days.
My ds 17 would have a fc every 2 or 3 years caused by ear infection,flu or tonsils. The fc was the first sign he was ill in nearly every case. Two he ended up with head injuries because he banged his head when he went down.
His first fc was when he was 14 months a few weeks after mmr but caused by a infection although he did cut a tooth that evening. When it came to his boosters we did discuss with gp and they were happy to give him his boosters in hospital but we didnt bother in the end and he was fine anyway. He didnt react to his booster at 15 either . He had an fc 2years earlier which keftvhimvwithva head injury and a bloody nose. It was caused by pneumonia I would much rather be in a position where i knew he might have one because of a vaccination than having them out of the blue because he has the illness itself.
I had one week where between my 2 dcs they had 4 febrile convulsions. I know how nerve wracking they are.

Ferbile seizures are on the whole harmless but what no one seems to be able to answer is why some children get them after every jab.

Vaccination forces the body's immune system to react. Ever individual reacts with some common features and some that are individual.

Febrile seizures are a reaction to an increase in body temperature. Normal body temperature is about 37 degrees C. But there is a variation. A vaccine causes an increase in body temperature in most people, which is why you are always warned that there may be a fever.

A single degree increase can make you feel quite ill, in a child it can leade to febrile seizures. So the seizure is a result of fever, caused by the vax, not something directly caused by the vax.

Obviously if your child has a temp that is normaly slightly higher then that 1 degree increase can lead to a seizure.

And this is the important bit, if the vacine makes your child react in that way, the actual disease will as well, and probably much worse.

I can understand the worry of spending two days in hospital with a sick child but if you had a choice of your child having to be in hospital for two days for something that can be treated and cured or in hospital for weeks with something where the symptoms can be treated but the actual disease cannot be cured by medicine, but only by your own child's immunity.

And that's the reality. Most vacines are to protect against viruses. We have some antiviral drugs but these do not destroy a virus in the same way antibiotics kill bacteria.

If it was simple to cure any of the diseases that we vaccinate against then we wouldn't bother with vacinations.

'Big pharma' can make much more money from drugs to treat various illnesses than they get from vaccines.

And don't think giviing your child vitamins, and an organic diet to boost immunity will neccesarily help.

I've been reading up on the Spanidh Flu (sad I know) and the reasons why it was young adults who succomed, not the usual childrena nd elderly. It was because the way the body's immune system reacted to that particular virus, it would provoke a strong reaction which caused organ failure.

About 1/3 of the world's population was infected and between 20 and 50 million died. That's between 5 and 10 times the holochoust. It's more than people killed in WWI.

Obviously most of us have beter sanitation then in 1918, but we also live in closer proximity to others (victorian family homes are now usually severl flats). The only real difference we, as a population, have against this disease if it comes back, is vaccination.

OK rant over.

It was the same with bird flu sashh.Many young fit people died caused by flu causing a cytokine storm. There were 2 young people in are local area.

Interested in the Spanish flu stuff, sassh. Does that mean that the young adults' immune systems had a stronger reaction than the children and elderly's immune systems? Sorry, being a bit dumb today.

Also, Bruffin, what is a cytokine storm?

Thank you perfect storm for research links.

I know what causes febrile seizures, I know it is the rise in body temperature but what I also know is that at other times apart from once ds was able to cope with this rise in temperature while fighting infection too. What is still not clear is why some children react in this way to combined jabs. Ds was fine after his BCG would he has been ok after single jabs maybe but the option is not there could it not possible be that combined jabs are not right for all children

As I said before febrile seizures on the whole are harmless and look far worse than they actually are but research is still ongoing (as it always is) regarding prolonged ferbile seizures. When you have seen your child worry doctors because they can not detect an infection and are expecting too it is very worring and no amount of well this is what happens to some children, or they would have probably had a fs anyway just it is coincidence is a good enough answer

I am not arguing against the need for vaccinations the issue for me and my child was that was it too much for his body to take, was he too young. And sadly I found no doctors or gp to be helpful I could not even get with ds history him having his jabs under observation all they did was give me instructions of how to manage his temperature (which has changed I was told before give him calpol when he had his booster wait 4 hours as new research has shown fever reducing drugs can occasionally interfere with the immunity process after having a jab)

And last point on medical research is who pays for the research. Not that all research should be dismissed at all but pharmaceutical companies are very powerful. Having done a little research on anti depressants and the wide spread use it becomes quite clear the powers they have

Its basically an over reaction of a healthy immune system, which is why young fit people are affected.

When are people going to get over the MMR thing. The hysteria never seems to die down even though the "dangers" links has long been disproven.

Because there are too many dodgy antivax websites spreading misinformation.