For thinking i shouldn't be getting constantly pestered by the local nurse and GP team to get my daughter immunises when i've repeatedly told them my answer is no?

[Lowla]

My daughter is 4. She got all her jabs as a baby, but i stopped at the MMR one. Since we missed the appointment, i've been getting loads of letters to invite us to the clinic for the MMR jab and now her school booster jab for some other virus. (Hib or something like that).

I've phoned the GP and asked them not to send any more letters out as i've chosen not to get her immunised any further for my own personal reasons, and worries over her last reactions to the jabs. And now i've got some nurse calling me asking to do a home visit next week to 'check on me and dd'. I asked 'is this about the jabs?' and she said, rather reluctantly, 'yes'.

AIBU for feeling like they should respect my decision?

Sorry for the bad grammar. Writing this in a rush as i have to run and get dd from school.

Lowla There are no recorded cases anywhere in the world of children dying because of MMR.

20 babies in this last year alone have died of whooping cough. Almost certainly because of people refusing to vaccinate.

Your attitude is quite shameful.

If you lived in a third world country you would walk miles and give anything for these injections ( bad reaction or not)
Personally i would never endanger any child. We are so lucky to have the opportunity to protect our children from disease.

There are plenty of children out there that have been vaccine damaged. Maybe the pro vaccine arguments would carry more weight if this was acknowledged.

If it were up to me then admittance to school, use of any community service or facility and receipt of any public service or benefit would be conditional on a full set of vaccinations (with exceptions only where supported by medical professionals).

If you don't want to contribute to your community then fine but you shouldn't expect to then receive the benefits of that community.

My DC are unvaccinated, why? my Dsis suffered a rare, severe reaction that almost killed her at the time and left her dependent on total care ever since. She has a life of no mobility, on a good day can hold her own sippy cup (rare), has to be fed, washed, dressed and sufferes very painfull spasms daily. Her joints are distorted due to no use, her musles are wasted, her nerves have irreverisible damage to the axons, she is allergic to so many things after being treated with immunoglobulin that it would be easier and quicker for me to list what she isn't allergic to. She is doubly incontinent.

She was developing well, no problems untill she had the wc jab. My mum is broken, broken with guilt. You our older sibling had a severe fit and ended up in ITU after a vaccination. My mum against her instincts 'for the greater good' chose to vaccinate my Dsis.

Vaccine damage happens, to ignore it does nothing for improving the saftey of future vaccinations. Vaccine damaged children aren't collaterol damage, they are someones CHILD. I won't vaccinate my DC to protect yours, sorry. My priority first and foremost will always be my DC, not yours. with our family history of very high incidence of auto immune disease, the risks for us are in vaccinating, my GP, HV and pead thankfully agree. There is a reason why the vaccine damage compensation scheme exists, although good luck with wading through the minefield to claim the paltry sum, it doesn't come close to whats actually needed to ensure severely disabled, vaccine damaged children, recieve the care they need.
I still believe that in the majority vaccinations are safe, but don't ignore the minority for which they aren't, unless that damage has happened to you, you will never know if your child will be the one that almost dies and suffers a life time of disability.

The causes of the current epidemic are, to be fair, more complex than just the idiot non-vaxxers. The vaccine turns out to be not as effective long term as people had previously hoped (or, pertussis may have become more resistant). There was an epidemic in the US before there was one here - so mass transit is implicated too. In the US they are now revising vaccination policy and giving pre-teens a booster. This is as a direct result of their epidemic (which is worse than ours). When I was in NY and Dallas in May there were public health signs ALL OVER, reminding people about whooping cough danger. The non-vaxxers are certainly implicated in the spread of the epidemic here but probably not in its initial cause. Until our public health policies change and we offer pre teens the vaccination too it's not going to get better - pre teens and early teens are at most risk because they generally suffer the full blown symptoms - adults are more likely to be carriers or have lesser symptoms if they contract it - but in this context adults includes older teens. And pre teens and young teens are shut up in schools all day with the older ones - whose symptoms may not be bad enough to keep them off school. :( The move to vaccinate pregnant women will hopefully save a lot of babies but it won't halt the spread of the epidemic. The non-vaxxers need to smell the coffee, and the government needs to institute a pre teen booster programme. Otherwise the situation will deteriorate further. If you don't currently live in an affect area, don't count your chickens - because they will come home to roost unless something is done and done quickly.

My dd caught measles aged 5 months because the herd immunity is now lowered because of children not beig vaccinated. It was horrible but she was lucky. It has made me think very differently about vaccines and you need a bloody good reason not to take them up.

The OP hasn't bothered to find out exactly what illnesses the vaccines would protect her daughter against and she doesn't seem sure whether the illnesses are bacterial or viral. I'm not surprised she's received something of a clobbering on this thread.

Northernlurker, I agree, the OP needs to do her research and not just any old google or wiki search, but, her DC has reacted after every jab, severe enough to warrant hospital admission, you can't blame her for being wary.

@demented Very sorry to hear about your Dsis. There was a statistically significant number of brain damage cases which were proved to be as a result of the whooping cough vaccine in the late 60s/early 70s. As a result many many people refused to have the vaccine for their children. The vaccine was changed - they identified what was causing the problem and altered the vaccine. People didn't believe them when they said it was now safe. Take up rates didn't massively increase. Then there was a whooping cough epidemic and far more children died than had been vaccine damaged. Take up rates shot up again, there was no statistically significant incidence of brain damage as a result of the new vaccine and WC became very very rare in this country. Till this year. That rareness is actually another reason for the current epidemic because it has apparently been massivley under reported and mis-diagnosed. It's a reportable disease, if one family member catches it, everyone has to go on completely vile antibiotics to try and halt the spread - but it's still being under-reported so it continues to spread.

I understand that your personal experiences have informed your view, but the vaccine now is not the vaccine that caused the terrible consequences 40 or so years ago. Which is no comfort for your family of course. :(

Beanie, if it were up to me all of those things would be dependant on whether you or your parents pay income tax or not, but thankfully society doesn't work like that

"If it were up to me then admittance to school, use of any community service or facility and receipt of any public service or benefit would be conditional on a full set of vaccinations (with exceptions only where supported by medical professionals).

If you don't want to contribute to your community then fine but you shouldn't expect to then receive the benefits of that community."

So Beaniestats, in your opinion the best way to punish the parents for making a perfectly legal decision with which you disagree, is to refuse their children education and basic services and benefits?
You are going to exclude the children from society because you disapprove of the parents choice.

And that would only be poor children you would punish of course because I have no need of benefits and my DDs private school fully accepts why DD is unvaccinated..

My bigot comment of earlier today stands.

Lowla, I think you've had an unfairly hard time, and I don't blame you at all for not wanting to vaccinate in that situation. Two days unconscious in hospital before she was even two? Who would want to risk a repeat of that, especially as there were other incidents after other vaccinations. I say that as someone who scrupulously gets all her own kid's vaccinations done on time and without qualms. I am a big believer in vaccinations for most. But if a child is unconscious for two days after one, and has reacted badly to all vaccinations, then IMO the practice should be asking whether she is a good candidate for more. That's what herd immunity is for, after all. Everyone, including those who react badly to vaccinations.

Please ask for an appointment with whoever at your practice has additional paediatric qualifications, specifically - a big practice has GPs who will have areas of specific expertise. If they don't, ask for her immune status to be checked (you may be worrying needlessly, and while it wouldn't make sense for all kids to have that check, with your DD I think it would - and the costs argument makes no sense in your DD's case, either, because another 2 days in hospital would cost the NHS far more than a blood test will), and then if she is not protected, perhaps ask to be referred to a paediatrician or immunologist. After all it's a huge field, medicine. I wouldn't think a high street solicitor should deal with a complex child residence dispute, either. If they are chasing you to vaccinate, then you can thank them kindly for their concern for her health, and suggest ways you can work together to secure it. YANBU to not want to see your child in paed A&E. Nobody whose kid has ever been there could think so, surely.

Crikey, I completely agree that saying Wakefield's data has never been replicated in any genuinely reputable study, and is now almost universally regarded as debunked, is necessary. It's just that as soon as you get into personalities, the main point - that vaccinations save lives, and are safe for most - gets lost in the shouting. Which is a pity. He was struck off for unethical methodology, not for being wrong. The being wrong can happen to any researcher in any field, there's no shame in it, of itself - and it is all that probably matters to a vaccinating parent: his error, and their child's safety. Not his moral fibre or lack thereof.

People worrying about the safety of vaccines are not bad parents. They are loving, they are engaged, they care. Fobbing them off does not work. Referring them to an immunology dep't somewhere, perhaps on a designated email or something covered by a specialist nurse, might. They want answers, and GPs and GP nurses aren't always best placed to provide them. They have to cover such a massive area in caring for patients, they can't be up to speed on research for everything. That's why the studies medical treatments are based upon are done by researchers who stick to that one relatively small field for a lifetime's work. I know it might cost a bit to ask a teaching hospital to set such a service up, but long-term perhaps it might pay off, if vaccination rates rose again.

I can blame her for not informing herself. Her child appears to have suffered febrile convulsions. That is a complication you see in younger children, there's every reason to think she will have grown out of it and anyway the illnesses she is failing to protect her child from would have the same temperature raising properties. If you want to keep you child out of hospital you vaccinate them.

@perfect I imagine all the parents of the babies who have died in the current WC epidemic saw their babies in paed A&E. I saw my DS in older child A&E. I spent weeks sleeping on the floor to try and prevent him choking on his own vomit and dying in his sleep. I'd rather people got their kids vaccinated (and bothered to do some research too) if that's all the same to you.

OP I'm intrigued as to WHY you posted ? It certainly wasn't to gain knowledge of the issues, given that you don't even KNOW what vaccines you are refusing. There are people on this thread who present eloquent and well researched arguments (much as I disagree with them ) I think your thread has done the 'anti vax' stance a huge disservice because of your ignorance of the subject.

And the best way to ensure that is for the OP to talk to someone properly qualified, so her worries and concerns can be properly addressed, and get her child's immunity checked so she knows if there is a problem, Mordion. Not to be shouted at on the internet, and consequently determined to refuse to engage with healthcare professionals.

Again: what is the priority? Being right on the internet, or actual health?

Mordian, I know the whole cell pertussis was withdrawn and replaced, as was the 'urabe strain' of mumps that was found to cause in some cases, meningitis, as was the previous swine flu epidemic vaccine as it was linked to causing guilliane Barre syndrome, as was the live polio vaccine that in a small number of cases actually caused polio. I think you get my point. They were replaced after adverse events occured, after children suffered. This is my point, ignoring the fact, for soem, vaccines are dangeroud does nothing to improve future vaccination saftey. Yes vaccines now are safer, but they aren't 100% safe, nothing in medicine is. for me it all boils down to risk, there is risk either way. For us the higher risk, even now with different vaccines, is to not vaccinate. Our experience has influenced our choice granted, but I don't do kneejerk. It took months of reading, researching, sifting through the woo, repeated visits with the GP before DC1 was even born, and repeated visits to a pead after to come to the decision to not vaccinate. I would call anyone a liar if they have our history and say they would vaccinate without reservations.

@perfect she was already determined to not engage with healthcare professionals. And of course, those healthcare professionals will be fully aware of her child's past history. And they still think that said child should be vaccinated. Why on earth would you think she would be prepared to talk to properly qualified people about her concerns when she refuses to talk to her properly qualified own healthcare professionals? And also can't be bothered to just do a bit of quick research in the Internet to find out what vaccines her child is due to be given? People like her are helping to spread an epidemic which is killing babies. Did she expect a medal? (I think she possibly did).

some dangerous apologies for bad spelling.

I agree PerfectStorm

In real life I know a few people who refuse vaccinations. They are almost entirely after really serious and scary reactions.
So these are parents who absoloutely intended to vaccinate and began a vaccination programme.

The way to deal with the fear that a bad reaction can create in a parent is o talk, examine the concerns and encourage full discussion with the health professional and others best placed to offer measured advice.

Half of the people on this thread are just enjoying giving someone a kicking.

If health issues actually were their priority then they would engage and persuade.
That is no fun though.

Although, despite our history, I still say for the majority vaccination is the lesser risk. I am not anti vaccination, I wish I could just rock up to the doctors and have my children vaccinated without the overwhelming fear we have due to our history. I just hate all the shoting down of people, all the name calling, it achieves very little.

@demented the withdrawal of those vaccines was hardly refusal to admit the issue, now, was it? But yes, I do understand why in your situation you made the decision you did. However - we weren't in the middle of a whooping cough epidemic then. Your decision might be different this time, no?

DH may have caught polio from the vaccine. He was admitted to hospital two days after receiving it. But at the time, his family were told that the incubation period was suck that it was highly unlikely he did contract it from the vaccine and much more likely he already had it. As I said, he was very very lucky - he only got it in his shoulder. He has a convex chest on one side because of this, but that's it. He has been asked to 'show and tell' about his polio scar to medical students many times, because his experience was quite rare. His tales of the children in iron lungs in the ward with him are quite harrowing. Did he have any doubts about our children having the vaccine? None whatsoever. Having had polio and having seen other child victims who were in a much much worse situation (many of whom died, which had a massive impact on a 3-4 year old) he had no qualms whatsoever about protecting our kids.

I do understand why you came to your own decision and I can see you did a lot of research. But do you feel differently now there is an actual epidemic which is causing deaths?

Also my post should say 'for us the risk is higher vaccinating than not.
I need to stay of the wine.

Am I really the only person in this thread who has been directly affected by the whooping cough epidemic? I know the are several other mumsnetters who have been or are still being affected. I honestly think that some people might feel differeently about vaccinations and especially the pre school jab if they had had first hand experience of whooping cough (or indeed, polio).