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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to ask how you feel about Scottish Independence?

763 replies

PierreBourdieu · 23/09/2012 11:01

Particularly looking for opinions from South of the Border, but all opinions welcome. My FB is awash with Independence fever after the rally in Edinburgh yesterday. As a Scotwoman I am always interested to hear the views of the English and get that perspective. I'll not disclose whether I'm pro or anti as I suppose it's not relevant here, also not looking for a bunfight! Care to share?

OP posts:
londonone · 23/09/2012 14:35

Ffs there are millions of people in england and Wales who haven't got the government they voted for. What makes Scotland so special that it's five million votes shouldmean more than any other 5 million votes. If anything the fact that Scottish mps vote on matters that don't effect Scotland means that Scottish voters actually have an undue influence in Westminster.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/09/2012 14:38

Because Scotland is an entire country whose interests are not being served in the slightest by Westminster.

You will note that independence will resolve the West Lothian question :)

londonone · 23/09/2012 14:45

Hahaha, talk about self important, there is nothing that makes the 5million Scottish votes any more important than any other set of 5 million votes.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/09/2012 14:46

So you are saying that in a Union of countries, the votes of one of the Union members should be entirely disregarded?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/09/2012 14:47

In which case the Union is obviously worthless, and the disregarded country should leave....

londonone · 23/09/2012 14:53

No I am saying that all our votes in the general election have the same value within the system and nominal "countries" should have no bearing on that. I would like to know what defines Scotland or England or Wales as a country in your opinion. I really don't see them as any more different than say the difference between Cornwall and manchester

Seenenoughtoknow · 23/09/2012 14:57

Welsh (and small part English) in Wales here - would be sad to see the break up of Great Britain as it's the unity that makes it great...but agree with the posters that say the break should be total if it happens.

If it ever happened in Wales though I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to move over the border fast enough - would be a disaster!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/09/2012 15:00

Scotland is not a "nominal country"!

It has its own government, education system, NHs, laws...

TitWillow · 23/09/2012 15:01

Scot in Scotland - undecided.

For those so graciously discussing whether we can use "your" monarch - You need to brush up on your history - Elizabeth the first of England died without heir, and the crown passed to James VI of Scotland - your James the first. The current queen's claim to the throne comes from her decent from the Scottish monarchy. So if we go, she would legally be the queen of Scotland. We might let you keep using her though Grin

Although to be honest, getting rid of an outdated monarchy might be one of the things that I would vote yes for, shame it doesn't look like it's on the agenda.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/09/2012 15:02

Plus the Union of the crowns occurred before the act of union, they are not related...

sarahtigh · 23/09/2012 15:02

DH is a highland scot, I am English living in Scotland

neither of us will vote for indepenace Dh is probably more anti than I am,

financially i will not work, not keen on devo max either

it is not scots that will vote just people on scottish electoral register whether they are scottish english welsh or whatever, a scot living in London will not be able to vote

There needs to be legal clarity about EU and currency before referendum, there is nothing automatic about either EU membership, pound rather than euro as currency, Queen as Head of State while that would be for New Scottish Government to decide, an independent Scotland can not have Bank of England as final bail out it will need to buy back or create new bank of scotland

must remember as well as assets like oil, there are also debts to proportion too

also in international law borders carry into sea at same angle as land border so the steep diagonal line from Gretna to north of Berwick continues at that angle into North sea so some parts of north sea oil would still be English

itsall fine has some good points but there are good well thought out points on both sides,

at present I thnk it unlikely that independence will be voted for

PennyDead · 23/09/2012 15:05

Yes, yes I/we am/are 'self important' if that's how you want to look at it. 300 years of oppression and being the underdog, is there anything wrong with believing in your abilities as a nation to self govern? No.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 23/09/2012 15:06

English, hope that the Scots vote no.

londonone · 23/09/2012 15:07

Yes but what makes you a nation? Genuine question. Is it tribal,political? I consider my self to be British, I'm nominally English but I struggle to see what makes me and English and a person from Cardiff welsh for example?

chibi · 23/09/2012 15:09

i am not from the uk so don't have a dog in this fight as it were

if that's what people want, then go for it, why not.

LadyBeagleEyes · 23/09/2012 15:12

But we are a nation. That is a fact Confused.

Jinsei · 23/09/2012 15:14

I think it's a decision for the Scottish people, and as such, I don't really have an opinion on it. However, I don't think that the Scots should be able to vote for devo max without the rest of the union having a say in the matter - if Scotland is to be a part of the Union, then we should collectively agree the terms of their membership, that isn't a decision for Scotland to take on its own.

If they do vote for total independence, I personally think it could be potentially disastrous for Scotland, but I would genuinely wish them well and I'd be delighted to be proved wrong.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/09/2012 15:18

I think it might be partly because the Union is only 300 years old? Wales has been part of England for a lot longer, and thus retains less of its national identity. Most things are england/Wales, whereas as I mentioned above Scotland still retains its own laws, and education systems, and devolution has meant that scotland/rest of UK have evolved along different paths. The fact that so much is different in Scotland post devolution shows that it does have its own identity.

londonone · 23/09/2012 15:19

Lady - so why no passports?

PennyDead · 23/09/2012 15:19

Of course we're a nation! What a ridiculous observation.

londonone · 23/09/2012 15:21

Nope still can't see anything suggesting nationhood, same for england. Kent has a different education system from Sussex, many uk cities have xtensive bye laws doesn't make them nations!

londonone · 23/09/2012 15:22

I guess I think of nations as places that issue passports!

londonone · 23/09/2012 15:24

So penny what makes you so different to me? W speak the same language, use the same money, have the same passport?

PennyDead · 23/09/2012 15:25

Someone obviously didn't read Renan at University...

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 23/09/2012 15:27

I am in England. Most English people I know couldnt care less. But if they have any opinion they seem to want Scotland to decide on independence or not - not a half way house of Devo Max