to ask how you feel about Scottish Independence?

[PierreBourdieu]

Particularly looking for opinions from South of the Border, but all opinions welcome. My FB is awash with Independence fever after the rally in Edinburgh yesterday. As a Scotwoman I am always interested to hear the views of the English and get that perspective. I'll not disclose whether I'm pro or anti as I suppose it's not relevant here, also not looking for a bunfight! Care to share?

...and of course, if Shetland voted to join Norway, which is used to be part of and indeed shared the Norse (Norn not Gaelic) language with, or become an independent state, rather than join an independent Scotland, that would have quite an interesting effect on the geographical allocation of oil and gas reserves.

I thought the north sea only had enough oil for about 40 years?

What's Scotland going to do after that?

The pound is a tradeable currency. This means that anybody/any country can use it if they wish.

The question is how much it would actually be worth.

Thanks Charlie. I read the first few pages but not all of them.

are the nations throughout Europe who are using the Euro not independent states? Erm yes. Technically they are. But in practice I'm not so sure.

Look at what has happened to Greece & Italy? When the Greek PM decided to put austerity measures to a referendum for the Greek people, the EU removed him and placed a puppet in his place. Ditto with Berlusconi & Monti.

Who would set interest rates? Scotland or Germany? As Ireland will happily tell you, the ECB set their interest rates to suit most of the population. And that's France & Germany. If Scotland's economy struggles as a result then that's just tough luck.

What about the recent fiscal compact? I assume Scotland must sign up to that as a precondition and show goodwill? I mean i doubt they'd be allowed to join if they do a Cameron and walk away!?

So in effect SNP want Scotland to leave and become "independent". Then signing up to the Euro, letting the ECB set their interest rates from Germany, signing up to tough fiscal rules as set down by France/Germany and relying on defence pacts with England because as of now SNP don't want to join NATO.

It doesn't sound much like independence to me? Sounds more like the mistress just wants a new master.

I wonder that too Viva.

Oil is spoken of as if it's a infinite resource.

Sorry Londonone! I posted in response to Geegee, who clearly feels above the level of discussion on these boards, to maybe add the stimulation that was missing. At least you made an attempt at reading it!

Viva - the oil that is left would provide a small safety buffer to create an oil fund for the future, and to help ease Scotland's transition into renewable energy, and independence.

Renewable energy apparantly Viva. Wind and water.

The Guardian seem to think that scotland can't keep sterling currency unless it's agreed by both sides.

www.guardian.co.uk/news/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/feb/28/can-scotland-be-independent-and-keep-sterling

Oh no, jmacks, you are really going to have to stop trying to speak for me, because you keep getting it wrong.

I have absolutely no issue with the standard of posting on mumsnet. There are some extremely intelligent people on here, and the standard of posting on this thread is primarily far higher than the average drivel you may read on the subject.

I am however totally fed up of the drivel spouted by SNP cybernats and activists. Its designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator, so its not surprising that it alienates some of the audience. Perhaps the SNP should do an exercise in researching ingratiating doublespeak, in order to appeal to a wider audience?

Geegee, I wasn't speaking for you, you claimed your higher intelligence earlier in this thread yourself. For the record, I'm not an SNP cybernat - I'm not even SNP. This is only the second place I've ever posted on the subject. I think my posts have been pretty open and non-aggressive.

So you don't want intelligent people who have different political views to you in an independent Scotland then, JMacks?

If Scotland wanted independence, and it came to a vote about whether they would be allowed to keep the pound, I'd definitely be voting "see ya"!

If they want independence than and not being at the mercy of economics in London then keeping the pound is completely contrary to what they are aiming for.

You can't have it both ways. You can't cherry picks the bits you like and the bits you don't and expect the rest of the UK to go "ok yes thats fine no problem".

In short it wouldn't be a friendly amicable split, it was be a messy bitter divorce. And divorces are expensive...

The opposite geegee.

Exactly what Prarieflower said back on page 1

Well how on earth are you going to persuade us to stay, JMacks?

I don't think it's reasonable to expect a country to choose independence one day, and on the next have a new currency, infrastructure etc. For stability, keeping the pound is surely logical as a first step?

You assume that we want to persuade you to stay...

I'm largely of the opinion that if you can't see a good thing when you've got one, without the need to persuade then you are unlikely to be persuaded by much anyway. Mainly as your too blinkered to judge something unbiasedly on facts and are being led by your heart too much.

newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/5863-new-figures-reveal-scotland-wealthier-than-rest-of-uk-since-1980

Good link Viva. Yes, you can imagine how popular it would be with the English for Scotland to say "Bye suckers....but can we keep your currency for now until we want to dump it for the Euro? Why? Cos the Euro's a bit shit at the moment. Thanks ever so much...."

And it does beg the question if Scotland isn't truly independent if they keep the pound, doesn't joining the Euro make things worse?

The article also points out that if Scotland must reapply as a new member, all other countries would have to agree and countries like Spain may have vested interests to say no. Let alone England whom I assume the Scots would rely upon simply to say yes without question.

Hmmthinkingaboutit is right. SNP seem to think that they can cherry pick the best bits for Scottish independence but reality seems much different.

Jmacks they should have thought about what was reasonable before suggesting they want independence. It is like a teenager saying hey want to leave home but haven't actually thought about the practicalities of laundry, feeding themselves etc

Oh, now I see your point geegee. All you intelligent people want to remain in the UK, and those of us that want independence are unintelligent, and Scotland will be left with no-one but us neanderthals, as all the bright people will leave. I hadn't considered that. I think you've persuaded me.

The practicalities of keeping the pound are obvious, and this situation has arisen plenty of times before when a nation gains independence. The examples I used earlier both involved a newly independent state keeping the pound for a time - Ireland and Australia. These things don't happen overnight, and it's entirely reasonable to expect a year or two of negotiations and working things out.

The EU question depends on whether an independent Scotland is classed as a successor state, or a new state.

If a successor state both Scotland and rUK would need to renegotiate their position in the EU.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scotland_and_rest_of_uk_would_have_to_renegotiate_eu_status_1_2116803

Alternatively, Scotland could be viewed as a complete line state, leaving rUKs role in the EU unchanged. If this was the case then international law states that the new state cannot take on any of the obligations of the old state eg Scotland could not take on any of the national debt.

Thanks for that IAGTBF, I thought there was something along those lines, but couldn't find it earlier.