To rehome my dogs?

[toughdecision]

I've NCed for this and apologies in advance for the rambling nature of this post. Am trying not to dripfeed.
DD is 8 months old. My dogs are 9 years old and I've owned them since they were 8 weeks old, they are 5 months apart in age.
One of my dogs has growled and challenged my DD on a number of occasions, she's never bitten anyone before (she has mouthed me when she was a lot younger, when I was grooming her as she hates it. I don't groom her now at all, I send her to the groomers every 2 months for a short clip to keep her coat in check). I'm worried she might bite my DD although she has shown affection towards her as well at times.
I have been removing my DD when the dog has growled/challenged and locked the dogs in their sleeping area. I spoke to a behaviourist at a shelter this week and she said I shouldn't remove my DD as this is sending the wrong message to the dog, that what she is doing is okay, she says I should leave DD where she is and correct the dog's behaviour by banging 2 saucepans above her head and this will show her I'm pack leader. I tried banging a biscuit tin when the other dog was barking incessantly and she did stop but my DD was sobbing because the noise was so loud.
I'm very nervous about not removing DD as I do feel it's putting her at risk.
I'm waiting for the shelter to get back to me as I'd want them to be rehomed together as they've never been apart from each other for longer than a few hours if they are at the groomers separately or at the vets.
At the moment, they don't have much of a life. They spend a lot of time in their sleeping area because of the growling and they never get walked anymore as I can't manage them and the pushchair on my own (I have to go down steps to get out of my house and they are very unruly on the lead) and my DH doesn't feel they need to be walked as they're quite sedate breeds and he thinks they're happy [sceptical]. They used to spend all their time being fussed and loved, now they're just being told to constantly move or get in their bed.
But when I look at them, I can't imagine them not being here or with us, they've been our babies for so long.
I've talked to friends and family in RL and I'm getting very mixed opinions, they all know how we feel about them.
DH doesn't really want to rehome but feels that it's making me very stressed out (which it is) and it would take away that anxiety for me.
I really don't know what to do. I feel guilty for keeping them as their quality of life has decreased as they never get walked anymore and they confined a lot of the time but then I also feel guilty if I rehome them that I've not tried hard enough.
I also can't rehome them separately or get rid of one because they are very attached to one another, when we do take them out if one of us crosses the road before the other and they're separated, they are desparate to get to one another. They are in excellent health for their ages and although they are unruly on the lead, they are small dogs and are very affectionate and friendly (apart from the growling dog with my DD).

OP, where are you based? If you are near me, I am willing to help you with walking them in the short term.

Personally I think you will be hard pushed to find either dog a rescue place because of their age, and impossible to regime together. You've been given some bad advice about the growling but if you really feel that it is due to the negligence (not being walked, sorry but that's what it is :() then it seems like madness not to try to resolve this if it means you can keep your much loved dogs - especially as they probably only have a couple of years left anyway.

I do understand what it is like in your situation, please PM me if I can be of any help.

*rehome

I know. I don't think the op gives a damn though - you see posts like this time and time again on the web.

I've seen genuine threads locally where someone has posted they aren't managing/coping with parenthood and dog ownership and have great fully accepted every scrap of help offered to them until they are able to manage on their own.

This is not one of those threads.

Nor is it a one where the op has real cause for concern about safety and well being. She hasn't tried a thing to integrate her family of her than banging a saucepan

I remember once my Lab growling at Ds in his baby chair. Proper growling, hackles up etc. But her body language was all wrong as she kept frantically looking at me. Further inspection revealed .......

The Giant Killer Moth Of DEATH, that was crawling on his chair

We obviously treated her like a hero for saving the baby

Good job you thought before screaming 'Cujo!'

I know it's been said, but surely it's no wonder you're having behavioural problems if you never walk your dogs. Sounds like you've fallen into the trap many small-dog owner do of treating them like babies or toys/accessories rather than proper dogs with a need for exercise, training, stimulation etc.

I find it very unlikely that you really can't manage to walk two tiny dogs like that, however unruly they might be. Even if you can't walk them with the pushchair surely you can walk them without the baby when your husband is at home, even if it's an inconvenient time of the morning/evening. You chose to have a baby knowing that your dogs had issues with on-lead walking, it is not right to dump your responsibility onto someone else (even if you can find anyone to take them, can't honestly say I'd want them based on your description here).

As for the saucepan thing, I think there is sometimes a place for occasional well-timed use of 'aversives' like that (though I know some here will disagree!), but this is really not one of them. I would never use a method like that for a dog showing fear/aggression to a child or another dog, that is only likely to make the problem worse.

(love the Killer Moth of Death story though :))

OP, you will have a very hard time rehoming them so you may as well resign yourself to the fact you're likely signing their death warrant if you get rid of them. The situation is salvageable if you really want to make it work though. I think first step is getting your DH to look after your DD while you walk the dogs; the poor things are probably going stir crazy from lack of physical and mental exercise. Get advice from a counsellor registered with the Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors with the aim of getting them walking beside the pushchair safely. In the meantime, if you really can't get anyone to walk them or can't get a babysitter while you do, get a baby backpack (sorry, don't know what they're called) so you can carry DD on your back rather than a sling on your front as this should be more comfortable for you.

The dog growling is no reason to get rid of them. As Snowflake has said it's their way of telling your DD to "leave me alone". Perhaps she's irritating them, of they aren't in the best of health so are little grouchy - as another poster has suggested, take them to the vet for an MOT to rule out health issues. I bet the problems are caused because the poor things have been neglected. It's not rocket science that they need some exercise. Unfortunately I think you've already decided to get rid of them though and were hoping MNers would back you up...

OP has not bothered to reply about why she can't walk her dogs for 20 minutes morning and evening leaving dd with her dad. Similarly weekends?
Or why she can't train her dogs to walk on the lead.
I see why there was a name change necessary.
OP you have acted irresponsibly and neglected your animals imo. You are quite able to turn this around if you make a little effort. The growling isn't the issue here, the issue is imo that you need to step up.
What is your response to walking the dogs without dd until you have trained them - why is this not possible?

With regards to the pulling and the pushchair I can also understand. My dog was attacked when she was on the lead by another dog off, she was a nightmare on the lead after that - I was out walking through town once with the dog and pushchair and she was awful, it was everything I could do to hold up the chair and keep hold of the dog.

I flipped out and smacked the dog on the bum, not hard but out of sheer frustrated desperation. And quite rightly got told of by a lady passing by. Thank god she was a "dog person", because I burst into tears, big snotty swallowing gulpy ones. Once I told her the actual issue she was hugely sympathetic, but pointed out it wasn't the dogs fault she was pulling but it was my responsibility to make her feel safe on the lead.

She put me in touch with a behaviourist. I didn't have a lot of money, but I only needed one session, of one hour. He walked with me, and the pram and the dog. Within an hour she was back to a respectable heel and no pulling, and i had the tools to keep it up thanks to the behaviourist.

Now with the breed you have you don't have the worry of the pram tipping or being pulled over. Just a inconvenient and difficult walk. Go to the doghouse, look at the lead training threads in their now. Stop, sit, reward. A 10 minite walk around the block will take half an hour, it will be fine as they are being mentally stimulated.

You have a garden, play with them each day, train them to heel off the lead, throw a ball. Fill a kong with food, when they are due meal times.

In short ACT like you give a shit rather than SAY you give a shit.

Yes it sounds like the OP just can't be bothered any more and just wants rid, and was looking for people to make her feel better about it.

I've seen it all too often when people have a baby and the dog or cat becomes an inconvenience to be got rid of. And people in that situation never do want to hear any suggestions or advice, whatever the suggestion they've always got some reason why it'll never work and there's no point even trying.

We might as well not waste our time, really.

I agree it sounds like the OP can't be bothered too...

OP, where abouts roughly are you? Perhaps a Mumsnetter can help you walk the dogs? I am in Edinburgh and if it helps in the short term, I will walk your dogs (with my pram and two of my own large breed dogs... ) or I can accompany you on walks to help you get used to walking the dogs with the pram?

What snog said. I have read this thread from start to finish and OP has failed to address the fact that she could walk with dogs while her OH stays at home with the baby.

I am also surprised at how little she seems to understand her dogs despite having had them for 9 years.

IME when a dog has cause to growl at a baby or toddler it's the same reaction an adult dog would give a puppy that's overstepped the mark. The dog benefits from seeing the child being told it was wrong (to pull ears, grab, kick etc) and feels safer around the child.

But these two are so neglected at the moment, they probably resent every human on the house. Some breeds would have chewed the house down through boredom by now and cost the OP a lot more than some training would.

Call it like it is. Your dogs were your babies. You now have a real one so the dogs are surplus to requirements. Everything else is just attempting to justify your dispicable behaviour and neglect. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

"
Remember people, if your hamster gives you a funny look it probably wants to eat your baby. Be safe. Get rid."

you just can't trust the furry little buggers. only a rat in disguise, really...

Just thought I should say that we brought a baby into the home of a difficult rescue two and a half years ago. We all made adjustments and dogs (have another now) are walked alone at least half the time but have also been trained by walk by the pram. I has actually improved the newest addition's heel. I was bloody hard at first, with DH forgoing lie-ins to get the dogs walked while I did the child care and before going to work. When he was away dig would get a short walk with DD in sling and then a good hour of activity in the garden (she thrives on clicker training). It's hard work, but so worth it to now have toddler and dog totally besotted with each other. They both still have to be put in their place now and then, but that's part and parcel of parenting and dog ownership.

Sorry, cluster posting but realised by lie-ins comment sounded shallow. DH is a shift worker, often on nights etc. He still pulls his weight.

-Old dogs and young kids often don't mix well. (i have been the young kid being hated by the snappy old family corgi)

-Dogs do growl at kids quite often. It means you need to intervene and not have that situation which caused the growling to crop up again (We had dogs when my kids were little. Great Dane + a Miniature Dachshund. Everyone still in one peice)

This problem is not insurmountable at all. Supervison, supervision, supervision plus a dose of common sense. With a side order of a basic bit of knowledge about dog behaviour.

To be blunt, OP, if you're still there, the dogs have only got another 2/3 years maximum of their lives left. By the time your DD is 3/4 years old you will be dogless. That's no time at all, in the scheme of things, to have to put yourself out and juggle things to keep everyone happy.

Please don't re-home your dogs :(

Haven't read the entire thread but it doesn't sound like the dogs are being looked after properly. OP if you are still reading and you need to rehome the dogs try contacting the Oldies Club www.oldies.org.uk/ they specialise in rehoming older dogs and may be able to help.

So you had a baby. You stopped walking your dogs when the baby came. You also started locking them behind a stair gate when the baby came. You can't figure out why the dogs do not like the baby?

Walk your fucking dogs fgs. Get up before DH goes to work and walk them then. Walk them again after he comes home. Tie them to the pram and walk them with the baby.

There is no reason other than laziness as to why you can't walk these dogs.

Lots of people have babies and dogs. They find a way to manage. It is called "being a responsible adult". Something we all have to turn into at some point. Even you OP.

We can all give you all the training advise in the world but until they are getting sufficient exercise none of it will work.

Get them into training classes, individually. Train one and then the other if needs must or get a sitter and you train one and DH train the other. I really don't understand why this was not done 9yrs ago?

You had 9 months of pregnancy plus a further 8 months to get to the bottom of these dogs' problems and yet you have done nothing and you claim to care about them? I would hate to see how you treat something you are indifferent too.

Hmm I think the OP has scarpered. But to add my two pennies worth you have shih tzus. I was imagining labs or other medium to large dog which can be a mare in lead with a pram. But these are frickin shih tzus. Yes it may not be a dream stroll but not such a danger to life or limb that you cannot do it. The reason I don't have a dog currently (as much as I would love one) is that I'd feel bad that I'd only be able to take it on short walks twice a day. How anyone can just not take a dog out at all is beyond me - it's so incredibly cruel. The only people I know who didn't do walks are people back home whose gardens were literally the size of small parks. The OP just doesn't want the dogs anymore and isnt willing to get off her bum to sort this out. Bloody hell.

To add to my post earlier, my dog gets a couple of miles in the morning with DH before he goes to work, walk with me in the afternoon and then another run in the evening. He also has a cushioned bed in a basket in the lounge which he knows is just his, he'll laze in it all day. He's quite happy behind a stairgate in the kitchen when DD has floor play, he just has a chew and lies, chewing and watching us. All positive reinforcement.

Oi, hamsters are not rats in disguise. That's offensive to rats (I have 4).

I'm not even going to comment on the OP. I'd get banned.

I feel sorry for your dogs - I don't know how you can consider re-homing them after all these years. Find a way of getting some help and in the meantime how about some baby gates so you can keep them safely apart from your baby. Also between the 2 of you make the effort and walk them - it is not fair to give up on them with so little effort.