To be deeply puzzled by competitive anti- feminism.......

[seeker]

"I'm not a feminist"

"oh, I'm so much less of a feminist than you are"

"I'm so not a femynyst I don't even know how to spell it"

MRA men, not all men, dear

Pop the kettle on!

The sort of men who identify as MRA are chauvanistic in the extreme, so Hully was merely pointing out the truth.

Who is doing what?

Making the tea?

I worked for YEARS in the field of rape, sexual assault, abuse and domestic abuse (not violence btw - abuse as it isn't just violence)

I supported and advised mens charities in setting up support groups, applying for funding, etc etc - but I can't provide that service - men need to

It was the gay community that was at the forefront of setting up help lines and counselling services - a lot of men do expect other to do it for them - that wont happen

the powers that be don't change unless it's DEMANDED - men need to do that

what do you do to support male survivors?

Can I just say at this point that the more disgusting you find it, the funnier I do? In direct proportion?

Just so as you know.

I have to go a-gathering now for my hunter.

L8trs

It's not funny though. I don't understand the same people who say we should give people respect are totally overlooking that gender stereotyping and DV can affect both sexes and making fun just because its not so common

I don't understand that and it's part of the reason people are put off

Shirty It was you who brought up 'male rights' meetings and how women wouldn't be allowed, I did 5 minutes of research and said your point was totally wrong.

Which then led on to people who are identifying themselves as feminists to be sexist towards men.

Thus answering the original OP about why people don't want to be called feminists and avoid the title.

So its not 'tactics'.

I really don't understand this post. I'm not aware of competitive anti feminism. I am not a feminist, but I don't care if others are or are not.

I believe that men and women are different. I don't give a monkeys if someone calls me a girl/lady/whatever and until reading Mumsnet I hadn't even noticed the thousand other slights that are supposed to offend us every day. I have never experienced meaningful discrimination because of my gender. Being a woman has never held me back in terms of education or employment and I have enjoyed equal and loving relationships with men. I'm pretty sure I've been called 'love' a few times or had a car salesman talk to my husband instead of me but so what. I'm not a feminist because I don't feel there is any need to be. That is my opinion, based on my experience. I wouldn't be 'puzzled' by or seek to belittle the opinions or experiences of others.

Well yes, dv is, like, totes hilair

My Dad is a man (obviously!) but he is, now at the age of 64, actually a feminist thanks being Dad to me & my sister (we are both independent, intelligent women who have had problems with men in the past - & he's very fair-minded & tries hard to see life from our perspective.)

Also the factory where he works is now owned by an American company which has a strict 'values culture' & equality policy - many of the engineers there are women who Dad says ''are as good as'' the male engineers - & that is a huge compliment coming from my Dad.

Dad is from a traditional working class background; he's late middle aged & a proper old fashioned 'gentleman' with good manners (taught by his dad & my mum's dad; who were both in the Army for long periods).
So he holds doors open, helps women with heavy bags, is really nice & polite
etc etc.
But he used to be quite sexist when i was a child - so all credit to him that despite his upbringing he's totally changed in his attitudes towards women & equality for all.
(I'm very proud of him!) :)

another who has NEVER come acrioss this

are you as page 3 model seeker?

" JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar

This "wrong topic" thing bothers me. In fact the Feminist topics bother me a bit; although I am coming around to the idea.

Feminism figures in every single thing we do. It belongs all over MN. I cannot think of a single topic on MN (or anywhere for that matter) where this is not the case."
Completely agree. Maternity services, raising teenagers, employment...chickens! Maybe chickens is the one topic where feminism ddoent feature.

Your Dad sounds lovely Latara. . I'd be proud too.

My Dad was raised by a very strong independent woman and I think it impacted on the way he raised my brother and I. No gender stereotyping, I was raised to stand up for myself and what I thought was right. (Also proud of my Daddy)

exactly Stealth

Yeah right, men's rights groups just want equal services. One of the biggest MRA websites has vast screeds about DV - men assaulting women actually being a sneaky trick women use to manipulate men. Yes really. Then you have Men Going Their Own Way, another charming bunch. All this in a world where violence against women and girls is under-reported and under-prosecuted.

And I saw looooads of anti-competitive feminism on seeker's thread. Women were falling over themselves to say they weren't feminists, or "equalists" instead. I commented about it on the thread.

So are we still meant to be puzzled by things that have never happened? Because I'm puzzled by the puzzlement

Mn is fucking baffling at the mo.

I am a feminist but it's not something I talk about, nor do I tend to discuss, study, debate or agonise about it. It's just because life should be fair.

I was brought up in a family where the 'girls' made Sunday lunch and cleared up afterwards while the 'men' (including my younger sibling) went o the pub, came home to eat and then went to sit own while the kitchen was cleaned.

I went and got a really good career in a male environment.

I like that the world moved. I like that the men who grabbed my arse or asked me to make the coffee in meetings are being drowned out. I like that my son and my dh think women should do what they chose. I like that my DD will get more choices than I did and I want to keep that good stuff rolling.

I won't say 'ooh I am not a feminist because some women over there are freaking out about Lego and I think that's silly'
I think it is odd to just hand feminism over to other people and say 'because I disagree with you I am just going to treat my vision of feminism as gone forever'

It is a bit weird.

Seeker, YABU to be deeply puzzled about something that is simply a construct of your imagination.

"Also the factory where he works is now owned by an American company which has a strict 'values culture' & equality policy - many of the engineers there are women who Dad says ''are as good as'' the male engineers - & that is a huge compliment coming from my Dad"

Now to me, THAT is patronising!!

Atacareer I can see what you mean but surely the man who was once sexist (as described by his own daughter) now looks at women doing the same job for the same pay and notes they do the job just as well is a step forward, a victory. Surely some change is better than none?

Where's Peggy Seeger when you need her?

PS. Hully, sorry but i've already made the (& finished my cuppa).

I hate it if i'm out shopping with my Dad & salesmen etc talk to him when it's actually me who is buying a product or service - it's so irritating.
I definitely tell them (assertively yet politely) to talk to me instead.
They won't learn otherwise, will they?

Last week when i sat in an old village pub for a glass of coke while i waited for a bus - a man started saying ''& women NEVER used to sit in this part of the pub!!'' - but then he was approx 90 so i couldn't help smiling - even my Mum remembers that it wasn't 'proper' for women to sit in certain parts of pubs.

Mum also remembers when she was a child that my Great-Gran (who died in 1960) had 'suitors' but never remarried after she was widowed in 1941.
Recently i found the probate record on Ancestry.co.uk that stated how much money Great-Gran had inherited from her late husband (my Great-Grandad) in 1941 - it was quite a lot because he'd been a shopkeeper.
She kept the shop open for a while but then went back to nursing - she'd loved nursing but had to leave when she married aged 22.
She went on to have a successful nursing career in the late 1940s & 1950s; & owned her own small house as a widow.

Mum & i realised that if Great-Gran had remarried in the late 1940s or 1950s then she'd have had to leave nursing again; & also would have lost control of her own money to her new husband. So in her own way - my Great-Gran really was a feminist.

We women today really don't have a clue about how life used to be for women...

& that's why i think women in the UK need to appreciate the benefits that feminism has brought them; & to understand realise that by exercising the rights that were hard-won by previous generations - then that means they ARE feminists.

IMO he wasnt once sexist, he is still sexist. But think its a generational thing so I wouldnt take it too much to heart, but I would, and do, find that pretty shit.

Women are as good as the men....huge compliment coming from my Dad....he used to be quite sexist......

There is a huge difference between feminism and being blatently sexist. Sadly some of those saying they are feminists are just sexist and thats why the word has such a negative implication to it.

Some of the views upthread ie mocking of men who are victims of domestic violence and suggesting they should continue to suffer and should have to fight for refuges 'because women had to' are vile. If a man came on mocking a woman who was a victim of DV in that way there would be uproar.

We are all human and all deserve to be treated with equal respect regardeless of gender (or anything else).