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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think: if you can fly first class, you shouldn't have a council house?

841 replies

Mexxo · 19/09/2012 22:32

Facebook friends of mine (friends of RL friends really) making lots of comments this week about their impending holiday to Mauritius on which they'll be flying first class and staying in a 5 star hotel.

This couple have lived in a council house for many years (no kids yet), though this year so far she has got a new (not brand new, a year or two old but still v nice) BMW and he has a new Ducati.

One of their friends has commented on FB "Wow, did you win the lottery?!" and the wife replied "no we just saved a long time for our dream holiday".

First class flights to Mauritius are £4k each. A week in a 5 star hotel must be at least £2k and probably more. That's £10k for a week's holiday. AIBU to think that if people can squirrel away that much money for a holiday, they shouldn't be living in a bloody council house subsidised by taxes from the rest of us?

OP posts:
TerraNotSoFirma · 21/09/2012 00:16

:)

LST · 21/09/2012 07:37

Around here the housing system is very fair. There is a banding system. I was band 5 of 7 when I was living in my council one bed flat. Me and DP both work and we had DS. We got re-housed when DS was 6mo even though a one bed is classed as adequate housing until the dc is 4-5.

They go on a needs basis. Everybody around here is housed adequately. There is never a long waiting list. We got our house as the old lady that lived in it before died.

GolfOscarLimaDelta · 21/09/2012 08:00

It's fair around here too.

There is a very long list but people who think you can just get a house easily are deluding themselves.

I am in band 3 of 4. There is over 3000 people in this band. Once I am homeless I will be placed into b&b and will move to band1. I will be bidding on properties with over 200 other families who are homeless or who have a medical/disabled need to be moved. The people who bid on a property will be places according to need and length of time in band 1.

We will not be housed until after Christmas most likely.

In the meantime I will look for the impossible private rent which doesn't exist for us.

Until all this started I thought that private renting was ok. That you could just find another place if served notice.

Only, where I am, LL don't want HB tenants. Not even working ones. Given my area of work, and taking into account my single income, I cant see I'll ever be in a position to afford a private rent without any assistance. So where would I go if someone deems I earn too much?

I honestly think the numbers of people earning a high wage in social housing isn't high enough to solve the crisis if they were all suddenly forced to move out.

LST · 21/09/2012 08:08

Golf - it won't. Are waiting lists are no where near that long.

I'm sorry you are in that position Sad

What part of the country are you?

Gingerodgers · 21/09/2012 08:12

This all seems ridiculous doesn't it. If someone is a local authority tenant, surely it is because they were top of the list at some point. If they are lucky enough to also be in a nice area, then good for them. I know it's hard if you feel that you are struggling, but most of us have struggled at some point. The problem is that some people don't realise that decisions they made at some point in their life,,go on to effect the future. Of course council house sales were a mistake, but tonnes of folk are now in great positions because of them, probably some of the same ones who are bleating on about how unfair the system is. It is what it is ,too bad if you don't agree with it.

Rhinosaurus · 21/09/2012 08:19

I have been looking at health and social policy for my degree module.

Isn't it a coincidence that at the time maggie bought in sale of council houses, she also bought in care in the community, with elderly with assets having to sell their property to find care.

So..... Let someone buy their council home - government gets the money.
Elderly ex-council home dweller needs to go into residential care, has to sell the property to fund care - government saves money by not having to fund them!

Bastards!

VinegarTits · 21/09/2012 08:35

For those that think it is so easy to just move out of a council house and rent privately is you have a few savings (instead of spend it on a holiday) it isnt

To rent privately, i had to have a good credit score, i had to provide references from my previous LL, i had to be in employment and i had to prove i was earning over a certain amount (quite a high amount actually)

these people might not have 2 hopes (none and bob) of renting privately if they dont have all of the above, does that mean they should go on holiday?

VinegarTits · 21/09/2012 08:38

sorry for typos, need coffee

GoldShip · 21/09/2012 08:43

The waiting lists are shocking. I was classed as homeless for a year and didn't get a place in that time.

They told me to go into a hostel, which meant I wouldn't be able to go to work. I had to stay living with my abusive ex and slowly had to save the odd pound up to get a house deposit. Which was a struggle as I was on 3.63 an hour.

GolfOscarLimaDelta · 21/09/2012 08:54

Exactly VT. it's not as easy as open paper-find place-move in.

My brother and his wife both work. Both have a comfortable income but still came across some LL needing proof of high incomes between them.

The list of people becoming homeless is growing by the day. Council house lists are tripling in size within the year in some places.

Do you honestly think moving out a small percentage of those families earning more will solve this?

And why are so many people registering as homeless? Because they can't afford their rent anymore. Or their mortgage. Or their landlord can't afford the mortgage.

Those people deemed to earn 'enough' may not stay in that category for long these days. So then what? They start at the bottom of the list again. They go into b&b or temp housing - which costs triple the la rents in some cases. So they end up in worse financial states with even worse credit ratings destroying any hope of private renting for a fair while anyway.

And this who aren't working and get placed in temp/b&b ? They are causing the HB bill to rise even higher. Which then causes the knee-jerk reaction of HB caps. Which then leads to less private rented property open to HB people as they simply can't afford it.

Local LHA rate is £950 for a 3 bed private place. I haven't seen anything under £1200 in the last 2 months.

notsofrownieface · 21/09/2012 08:54

Unless something drastic happens to housing now, what happens to the next generation?

GolfOscarLimaDelta · 21/09/2012 09:00

I think it will all have imploded by then!

I think private rents will have to drop. Less people are getting credit these days so less people will be buying to let.

I don't know what the councils will do. I'm so shocked that right in the middle of this, they have taken away the law that says every new build development must include a percentage of social homes. Right when we need them most. But the good thing is the councils can no linger rely on those developments bumping their home count. So they will have to tackle it themselves. But I'm not confident they will tbh.

VinegarTits · 21/09/2012 09:01

Also private LL's are very reluctant to rent to ex-councils house tenants, even if they pass all the criteria, because of the stigma

VinegarTits · 21/09/2012 09:03

if this government stay in place and continue as they are doing the next generation are already stuffed

GolfOscarLimaDelta · 21/09/2012 09:06

LST - somehow missed your post sorry!

Thanks :) I'm in SE. Stupidly expensive I know :(

We'll be ok. I just find it hard when people don't see how much this situation can destroy people. Yes if high earners moved on i'd probably spend a week or two less on the list. But I can't begrudge a person holding onto private housing. If they have ever felt half of what we are going through I don't blame them for staying put. Especially in a recession.

notsofrownieface · 21/09/2012 09:23

I will admit that I have changed my way of thinking from my earlier posts.

I think it still sucks that not everyone in this country has access to decent, affordable, secure accommodation.

Abitwobblynow · 21/09/2012 09:57

"The largest proportion of the welfare budget is on state pensions. What are we going to do about those, as more and more people live longer and longer? Raise the age of retirement? "

Yes. However much people screech and scream, the age of retirement is going to be raised.

The current situation is unaffordable. It is unsustainable. It is also inherently unfair: private sector employees are required to pay for their own pensions, AND the pensions of state employees.

Everyone: society is a contract. There is a contract, for example, between the govt and the people, where the people agreed (long ago) that the state would be given powers to pass laws which everyone would obey, to keep all people safe. This is an ancient social contract.

There is also a contract whereby the people that have, pay for the people that haven't. This is what we are discussing here.

When any contract is perceived to be unfair, the contract breaks down.

This thread is a real eye-opener (and sad making).

  1. The lack of understanding of economics. Vinegar tits Shock and others!
  2. The real split in our society, we are not a cohesive unit. All this resentment blaming and contempt!
  3. The lack of understanding that the contract between haves and have nots, is at straining point. VT and others still go on and though they are 'owed' by the 'despised middle classes'. There is little or no recognition that this is unsustainable.
  4. Nobody is discussing the real issues.

Politically, I think this is all quite worrying. Point 3. needs a real honest and open discussion. The deck chairs have moved, and nobody is noticing that the ship is sinking.

Anyway, I will watch with interest.

FrothyOM · 21/09/2012 10:15

The deckchairs have moved into tax havens...

kim147 · 21/09/2012 10:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LST · 21/09/2012 10:22

I don't care what anyone else does with their money. I only care about I do with my families interests at heart.

sixlostmonkeys · 21/09/2012 10:34

Assuming that the 'have nots' feel they are owed is a very wrong and dangerous assumption to make.
Making assumptions is not the same as 'understanding'. Quite the reverse.

VinegarTits · 21/09/2012 10:50

abitwobbly are you on the wrong thread again? i thought we were discussing the OP (you know the origonal post, should this couple move out because they have saved to go on holiday?)

your trying to turn this into a class war, start your own thread

charlearose · 21/09/2012 10:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VinegarTits · 21/09/2012 10:57

oh and if i was forced to put myself into a class (which i would hate and the class system is outdated) i would quite comfortably fit into the 'despised middle class' you think, i think im 'owed' by

are you forgetting these pople pay taxes? we are not paying for them to go on holiday, they saved up their own money for it, and are quite entitled to do so

sixlostmonkeys · 21/09/2012 11:09

ah you are just going to confuse her 'understanding' now Vinegar.

To understand we need to accept that CH tenant = non tax payer = have not.
A have not obviously beieves they are simply owed.
Keep it simple now Vinegar Grin don't go adding reason or truths to the matter.