"Don't tell Mummy" from MIL?

[Chrestomanci]

MIL is generally lovely but she has a penchant for giving DC sweets & saying "Don't tell Mummy". She does it as a joke I think, and as far as I know I've always been in the room anyway when she's done it, however I'm really uncomfortable with it.

DC are still young, but I will teach them that no-one should be telling them to
keep things from Mummy & Daddy & I think it's confusing that MIL is saying this. DH thinks I'm overreacting a bit I think as I said something about child protection as a reason why but more generally I don't want anyone encouraging my children to lie to me.

So am I being very po faced, and how do I address it with MIL?

I have exactly the same problem but it's not just with sweets. I catch them out on lots of things. It's not a joke or harmless fun. As an adult and a role model I just don't know how I can explain more clearly to her why it's wrong. It's not just the keeping things from mummy which s worrying but she has taught my daughter to try and deceive me. I could go on and on about this subject.

Yanbu- instilling secrets in kids is never a good thing as a child may keep something bad a secret. I don't think your mil means any harm though.
I would tell mil the sweets are allowed providing she doesn't tell the kids to keep secrets

Madwoman, the guy who abused me was a "safe" adult, he was my mother's friend. The guy who abused my best friend was her friend's brother, not even an adult. Others are abused by uncles, brothers, grandfathers and grandmothers, aunts, teachers etc etc. No adult should ever advise a child to keep a secret from a parent, no matter how innocent that advice is. There should be no mixed messages on this front. None. If a granny can say "don't tell mummy" about sweets then an uncle can say "don't tell mummy" about a "special cuddle that's only for you and me."

No grey area. No secrets. Full stop.

Plus if granny gives the children sweets while mum isn't there, and says "Don't tell mummy" then mum asks later "Did granny give you sweets?" what's the poor child supposed to do? They're put in a really tough position where by taking the sweet they've agreed to lie but they don't want to lie to their mother. It's just a totally unnecessary stress for the child. Sweets are not big deal, there's no point in creating such a problem around them.

GPs can have a special bond with GCs AND be on the same team as parents y'know!

how about "mil not everybody in the world is as nice as you,teaching dc's to have secrets from parents teaches that secrets are ok,did you know that a huge % of child abusers start with grooming and that grooming often uses the treat/secret as its a very effective one.please stop it."

and yanbu

I would mind too, but for slightly different reasons. I don't like the idea that sweets are "naughty", and that stuffing yourself with sugar is somehow associated with rebellion and sticking it to the man (or in this case the mummy). It's a fucked-up relationship to have with something that is just a foodstuff. They're nice to have occasionally, that's all, like it's nice to have a cocktail occasionally or something.

Totally agree older generations still have a kind of cultural hangover about this from rationing, it's not their fault.

Caitlin, that old chestnut about safe adults, really? No shit that grandparents abuse? And parents?

'don't tell mummy' is what daddy's say, too.

And mummy's who get a good belt in whilst daddy is out.

It's up to each parent (even those who are unsafe themselves) to decide who the 'safe' adults are in each context.

And I'd prefer grandparents to be on the 'safe' list for my kids.

But if you see your mil as a potential abuser, op, get right on it.

Exactly Lacking - there's no point in pitting mum against gran and making the child choose in order to "create a bond" - it's totally unnecessary.

I'd agree with pumpkin to say to MIL that the sweets are allowed provided she doesn't ask the DCs to keep secrets from parents. But, if she's anything like my mother, you might also have to have a brief discussion about how many sweets/ lollies are appropriate, and when they might be offered eg after supper not just before etc.

All sounds very obvious but there's no stopping my grew up in war-time Mum - she's like a kid in a sweetie shop ! She'll get ice-creams out of the freezer in front of the DC's and then ask an impossible and cursory "Is it OK if they have an ice-cream ?" vaguely in my direction. Arghhh !

YANBU.

My mum has mentioned for years getting DD a mobile phone "In case there's something she wants to tell me about that she'd rather not tell you..."

DD is 8 tomorrow FFS!

Obviously a far weirder thing, but I can still totally see where you're coming from.

I wouldn't be keen if my DH said "don't tell mummy" either. It strikes me as sort of playgroundish and silly, really. Children don't really understand the joking "don't tell" thing - they take it seriously and they worry about the consequences if they do tell. Of course there will probably be no consequences whatsoever but they don't know that.

Madwoman - you consider your children's grandparents to be safe. I consider the same. However, how is a child supposed to tell who's safe and who's not, who can tell them to lie and who can't?

I share your problem.

I have been boo'd a bit by some on here about my opinion on giving fizzy drinks to a 2 year old - apparently I am uptight and it is OK.

My DS is now 4 but since we found out they were giving him coke at the age of 2 and they carried on anyway this 'don't tell mummy' thing happens a lot.

Always with sweets or fizzy. She doesn't listen. I told her not to give him coke - ever, she gave him lemonade and said that I didn't say he wasn't allowed lemonade. I am fully aware of how condescending I am with her now but it is her fault. In front of DH and FIL when she told us he'd had lemonade I said 'right that's it - no coffee, red bull, wine, vodka, fanta, pepsi, lucozade or beer -do i need to be more specific'? She was not happy

I have to literally tell her times of what she can feed him & when and leave his food laid out. If I leave her to do his lunch in a house full of food she lets him eat a packet of crisps and says he didn't want lunch! Or she lets him eat a massive cake from bakery at 5pm - knowing i give him dinner at 5:30 - last week she let him eat 7 jaffa cakes instead of lunch - knowing full well I would go mad!!!

I know this is horrible but he starts school next week and she has been having him 1 day a week for over 1 1/2 years - yesterday was the last day!!! YAY.

Of course she will still she him but no more looking after him and me having to see her every week and put up with her shit!

OP you have my sympathies.

madwoman you are spectacularly missing the point

noone's saying the MIL is an abuser, we are saying that abusers use the SAME technique to groom so making that okay takes away the first red flag and oportunity for them to double check with someone else whether what's happening is okay!

And as for parents deciding who is and isn't safe? WTF? you just don't know, but you do give your children as many tools as you can to say no and go straight to someone else without being afraid of telling what happened

In fact, bf was telling me her mother did something similar to her sister recently. Sister's DS (2yo) had finished his child-sized portion of the pudding they were having, and the mother went "Oh DGS, have mine too!" and scooped her adult-sized helping into his bowl against boring old mummy's protestations.

They think sugar is the best way to get a "special bond" going, and given its addictive qualities they're probably not wrong!

Bubalou, I remember that thread. I think you got a hard time unfairly, in that if it really was just one lemonade yes it is a bit uptight, but if you're constantly having having to fight a battle on this front and the lemonade was just the latest thing then YWNBU at all!

It is absolutely bizarre that people encourage their DC/DGC to have a fucked-up relationship with sweet foods.

I'm not missing the point at all.

I'm saying that the children need to be aware that this is a joke from a grandma. I'm not completely stupid, and oddly, do have some idea what grooming entails. After all 'have a sweetie little girl' 'would you like to see some puppies' have been part of urban lore for generations.

Yep, paedophiles say 'don't tell mummy'. Very helpful to encourage your child not to have secrets.

But this is a joke when mummy is in the same room. A joke that has been used forever, and is actually about reinforcing trust, as the child well knows that mummy knows.

There are billions of adults who have been brought up with winking grandmas saying 'don't tell mummy' that have never had any difficulty telling the difference between a family joke and a dangerous situation, even when the exact same words are used.

I'm all for child protection, but sometimes I think we worry too much.

what y'think abusers don't use jokey tones either??? they don't generally do child catcher impressions!

and kids might laugh and like the conspiracy, but they often DO take it seriously (see poster with the child who cried when asked where the money came from) and think that its really important that they keep the secret for grandma

That's fair enough madwoman, I can see your point. I just think that children are so easily bamboozled and so easily persuaded by abusers, who have a whole bag of tricks for getting a child to trust them, that I would rather a child had knew absolutely zero secrets were allowed, joke or not, no matter what the circumstances. Any uncertainty, any situation where an abuser could say "Well you don't tell when granny gives you sweets do you?" is not acceptable in my book.

Also, I believe that joke used at another person's expense (in this case, the mother's expense, as she is not happy about the sweets) isn't a joke. If the mum was smiling and involved then it would be just a shared thing, but as the mum isn't happy then it's no longer a joke IMO.

I've been witness to MIL telling her other dgc not to tell their parents when she was buying them make up type things when one DGC told MIL her parents wouldn't let her have it. As far as I'm aware BIL/SIL are not aware she told them not to tell their parents (I don't want to rock a v fragile boat). MIL also does this kind of thing in other situs and encourages cheating in board games. I know I might be overeacting but it's so alien to how I was bought up I find it really uncomfortable and confusing for the DC.

I think it depends perhaps on the MIL - if that's all she does and she genuinely doesn't mean anything by it and you can maybe joke in front of MIL when she says it about how you can see and MIL is being cheeky (or making light of it in front of everyone) then you're not giving so much mixed messages. However, if your MIL is in the habit of telling porkies and then actively encouraging your DC to do the same then that is very unreasonable.

"There are billions of adults who have been brought up with winking grandmas saying 'don't tell mummy' that have never had any difficulty telling the difference between a family joke and a dangerous situation, even when the exact same words are used"

are you serious! there are SO many children who kept their abusers secrets for years and years!

its a very simple thing to do (The surprizes not secrets thing), like not belittling your childs instincts, and it MIGHT, MIGHT be the difference between being abused and not, but given that its so easy to do then I cannot see why anyone wouldn't! and its really not difficult for GPs to grasp - give them some credit! They don't want their GCs in danger either if the 'policy' is explained in a non accusatory manor

Thanks madbuslady - that was exactly my point.

We do eat very healthy - DS loves fruit, veg, cous cous, humous, fish etc.

However he is a child and has cakes, crisps, sweets, juice too. I am by no means uptight.

But they made 'fizzy' something amazing and forbidden to him which he now always wants! He wasn't fussed about it before and I won't give in!

I agree with the relationship to sweet food thing too. However both his parent are feeders! They are very big, his sister is very big and when he was a child he was big until he moved out and got himself fit. By big I don't mean a little overweight - they are classed as morbidly obese. He does resent his mum for feeding him that way as a child and says that he thinks he would be a lot healthier / slimmer today if he wasn't fed the way he was. He exercises 4-5 times a week still and I think he's very fit .

I'm glad though that he recognises this and wants our son to be healthy so the pattern has broken for us at least.

I also agree with Cailin's second point, family members shouldn't put each other down on front of children, and making mum the no-fun-no-sweeties-police is a put down!

Er, the op didn't give a flying toss about the sweeties, it was the child protection secrecy issue that concerned her. Not the sugar. No pitting of mummy against child/ grandma.

But hey ho.

We all bring up our kids differently. I suspect that how we bring them up (short of neglect) will have very little effect on whether or not they end up as potential abuse victims, but it is encouraging as parents to give them as big a tool kit to use in their defence as possible.

But the issue SHOULD be about not undermining parents - as i say, my DP does this and i swear the red mist descends sometimes. Child protection? well i don't know about that, i don't think the Grandma was actually asking the child to keep a secret - she was saying it overtly, as if to say, oooh dont tell mummy because she wont let you have sweets because shes really boring isnt she. Thats my take on it