To Think Mums are Discriminated Against when Job Hunting?

[TheLazyGirlBlog]

Am ranting slightly (and DP raised his eyes to the heavens so bear with me ladies).

I am trying to get a job at the moment after 5 years out due to DCs. My DP is self employed and we could do with an extra income.

I didn't in anyway think I could just apply and get a job straight away, I'm not daft, there's a recession etc (please don't flame me). However, I've applied for at least 50 jobs across about 5 towns and have got not one reply in 2 months.

Prior to having my DD 5 years ago, I'd worked solidly in retail from the age of 14 onwards. I did both a Retail management and Health and Safety courses a year before getting pregnant and was working as an assistant manager.

When DD was 11 months old, I got PG again (accident but was told I wouldn't get PG again due to internal issues), and had my DS at 28 weeks. He has had all sorts of illnesses, hence the long time out. However, I've run my websites with teams, worked with brands and PRs in that time so not just sat on my arse watching TV all day (as I assume these managers think).

I have tried everything, and not had one email back even to say thanks but no thanks. I cant see it would be my previous employment as going back to same thing (wanted to work in PR, got nowhere with that either). So now think its the 5 years out of work.

It feels like discrimination, as I've spoken to other Mums in the same position. Companies wouldn't be allowed to discriminate against any other social group but they do it to Mums returning to work all the time. My niece is 17, never had a job and got one straight away.Feel like a failure.

Tips?

I am in London. I went for an interview earlier this year for an Office Manager position in a well established property management company in Notting Hill. I was one of 20 interviewed (293 applicants). I am 42 with no kids by choice. I actually think that employers are put off by me and think I will have a last stab at becoming a mum and leave after a short time!

I have an interview for the Post Office this week though

DH recently applied for 2 jobs - he's been a SAHD for the last 6 years but DS2 is due to start school next year so he's looking for daytime work.

2 jobs, one in public sector, one private. Both 9-3, Mon-Fri - you would have thought they were tailor made for a SAHP. He didn't even get interviewed. So it's not just mums that are discriminated against, although I agree they are the ones most likely to have the career gap.

And his skills, past experience, inside knowledge (one job was working in my dept!) made him the ideal candidate. Which I would have thought warranted at least an interview.

OP Tis tough out there. I had an interview for a temporary audio typist job at a building consultancy firm near Old Street. There were over 200 applicants for a temporary (one year maternity leave) job.

Do not take it personally love. I have applied for lots of jobs on the Secs In The City website and have had few replies, despite 20 years plus secretarial experience and good qualifications.

This isn't discrimination, I think you need to rethink your CV. Do not mention children, they have no place on your CV. Home life and work are two completely seperate issues.

FWIW - I have not put down my marital status on my CV. But that is a bit like not putting. down your D.O.B. They can work out your age from the year you sat your O levels . They see no gaps in your employment history and guess you don't have kids.

I think certain interviewers are suspicious of child free women. This is my experience. Not just interviewers but healthcare professionals. Not long ago I went to the doctors for psoriasis cream. The doctor asked me if I was having sex. WTF? I thought. Then I realised the doctor was only asking cos he had read my medical records and saw I was childless. He wondered if I was trying to conceive!!!
He even gave me leaflets on ferility problems!!!

He is a lovely man but he is rather old fashioned in his outlook.

I've been unemployed for 5 months. I registered with a temp agency (and got nothing) and applied for 7 jobs, 4 of which were absolutley what I was qualified for, the other 3 I could have done but would have been out of my comfort zone.

Today I started a new job - it's absolutely what I'm qualified for and as yet, they have no clue that I have children. So no, mums are not discriminated against - if you are available and capable for a vacancy then there is no need to mention your personal circumstances.

But YANBU to expect a reply to your applications - That's rude, not discrimination.

Hi, I am looking also and I have got some great advice from this thread. It is very tough, my youngest has just started school and I have a gaps in my employnent. I tend to mention my children too much to employers. I also have a chronological cv. I have done loads of part time, freelance and voluntary work since being a sahm and need to sell that rather than my scary knowledge of cbeebies.

mrseffington giving hope to us all!!!!

FWIW - I have not put down my marital status on my CV. But that is a bit like not putting. down your D.O.B. They can work out your age from the year you sat your O levels

Not always, my O Levels where taken a couple of years before my mum took a couple of GCSEs.

OP

I agree with everyone who says it's your CV not being a mum.

numberlock i advocate telling the truth because in my experience employers will make all sorts of assumptions about a woman in her late 20's / 30's and the truth may be more attractive than the imagined position.

Many employers are fearful that a 30 year old will be off on maternity leave or that she'll regularly need to drop everything because the kids are sick. All else being equal man, who is not perceived to have these issues, is often considered to be the more attractive option.

When I went for my last interview an appropriate moment came and I told the interviewers that I had had my family and that I had excellent child care in place which i believe helped alleviate any concerns they might have had re employing a "woman of childbearing age". I got the job and firmly believe honesty was the best policy.

I think it's more to do with skills and experience and current fierce competition for jobs. if you do get an interview get rid of that chip on your shoulder.

Your success in getting to interview stage depends on two (sometimes three) things:-

1. Your qualifications/match for the role in question (people can be binned for being too qualified, by the way)
2. The persuasiveness of your CV (which is totally different from your underlying experience/quals), together with the persuasiveness of your covering letter
3. The selling of you undertaken by your recruitment agent (if going via an agency)

If you are not getting to interview stage it will be one or more of these things at fault. Nothing to do with being a mother

I've been interviewing/recruiting people for more than 10 years now (reviewing CVs on a weekly basis). More than 75% are binned immediately even if paper qualifications match the role. People usually have no idea how they come across. I have also interviewed people who on occasion don;t have the basic role requirements, simply because they come across so well in their CV/covering letter.

Do you know anyone who can give you some guidance/honest critique of where you are not hitting the right note? Ideally a friend in business or a previous colleague.

SaraBellumHertz rather than telling me that 'honesty' is the best policy, you've just made me think that lying is - we should all say our family is complete if it gives us an advantage!

I have never put my date of birth on my cv any more than I'd put my marital status or number of children, wouldn't have occurred to me tbh.

Whether you choose to mention your children/family commitments or not, I still think the cv/application form/cover letter is not the place to do it. Wait until you've at least got an interview!

just wanted to say thank you to numberlock and others. Am almost back at the point of applying for jobs so hopefully will remember this information.

You don't need to remember it. For it shall be here in AIBU for the whole of time.

I just checked mine again and I don't even have my qualifications on my 'standard' CV. Obviously if the job description specified a minimum level of qualifications I'd put those in, but after 20 odd years in the workplace I don't think my O grades have much bearing. That said, I don't have a degree.

My CV is

Personal statement - where I describe what you're getting, ie me. This is the thing that gets most tailored to any specific role or opportunity. So if they say they're looking for an organised person with 5 years experience, this should say 'An organised manager with 5 years experience'. On the first thing a recruiter reads, they're already ticking off a mental checklist of what they want vs what I have.

My top 5 skills and achievements. Again tailored to fit the role.

Then bullet pointed work history, literally years, company, post.

It all fits on one page, doesn't mention children and my outplacement consultant (was made redundant 3 years ago) said it was the first CV he'd seen that he hadn't made changes to.

numberlock i advocate telling the truth

Perhaps I should have reworded my original statement, instead of using the word honesty. I meant that I don't advocate revealing any personal details in CVs or covering letters that aren't relevant - this includes age, marital status and family situation.

I'm not recommending dishonesty if asked at interview, but none of the above has any place in the job application process.

My cv is

Personal info:
Name
Address
Email

Education and qualifications

Work history and skills

Personal statement

Interests

Keep to the point early
On and then write about yourself

I have never not gotten an interview. I'm just shit at the interviews
Lol

I think if I was asked about childcare at an interview I'd be really tempted to look totally confused and say I had absolutely no idea, my partner deals with all that stuff. Just to see how they reacted....

What about in the case of companies that require you to fill out an information form? Many forms require you to put in your marital status, age, number of children etc. Leaving out those questions would probably ensure you didn't get an interview, yet by law they're not supposed to ask those things.

Given employers can't even take into account you being pregnant when applying for a job, seems amazing that any would ask for marital info etc. I wonder what kind of employers these are? Certainly doesn't happen in public sector. Application forms (as opposed to cvs) that I have completed lately don't even ask you your first name, just an initial so they don't know the sex of the person.

That's good to know, re asking only for an initial, Iggi. What an excellent practice.

I've seen a few threads on here over the years where someone has been asked illegal questions about children or childcare in an interview. In every case I can think of, the OP has decided not to take it any further, even though it's illegal, because as a jobhunter you tend to focus on just getting your job and don't want to stir up trouble for yourself and often you're not going to be able to prove anything anyway. So I don't find it surprising that many companies are still doing it even though it's been illegal for a long time.

Forms for chainstores have asked in the fairly recent past for marital status, details of dependents etc.