To Think Mums are Discriminated Against when Job Hunting?

[TheLazyGirlBlog]

Am ranting slightly (and DP raised his eyes to the heavens so bear with me ladies).

I am trying to get a job at the moment after 5 years out due to DCs. My DP is self employed and we could do with an extra income.

I didn't in anyway think I could just apply and get a job straight away, I'm not daft, there's a recession etc (please don't flame me). However, I've applied for at least 50 jobs across about 5 towns and have got not one reply in 2 months.

Prior to having my DD 5 years ago, I'd worked solidly in retail from the age of 14 onwards. I did both a Retail management and Health and Safety courses a year before getting pregnant and was working as an assistant manager.

When DD was 11 months old, I got PG again (accident but was told I wouldn't get PG again due to internal issues), and had my DS at 28 weeks. He has had all sorts of illnesses, hence the long time out. However, I've run my websites with teams, worked with brands and PRs in that time so not just sat on my arse watching TV all day (as I assume these managers think).

I have tried everything, and not had one email back even to say thanks but no thanks. I cant see it would be my previous employment as going back to same thing (wanted to work in PR, got nowhere with that either). So now think its the 5 years out of work.

It feels like discrimination, as I've spoken to other Mums in the same position. Companies wouldn't be allowed to discriminate against any other social group but they do it to Mums returning to work all the time. My niece is 17, never had a job and got one straight away.Feel like a failure.

Tips?

I would be like 'he has no opinion as I have got all the arrangements in place and am keen to get into the workplace myself' or some such

Saying he is fine with it implies that you have had to ask him and that I the child is sick it would be you who would have to deal

Even little words and implications can have a huge impact on an interview

Are they even actually allowed to ask things like that?

Nope but you have to decide sometimes between giving a confident answer or saying that is an inappropriate interview question

And it takes a brave person to do that

You will not be actually asked that though
Maybe amend the cv and take out any mention of your kids. Use the five years to describe extra skills, organisation etc

Do you do any work that helps your partner with his business admin etc. could this be included as working part time?

I work in recruitment. With regards to the gap, it needn't be a problem but it will depend on how you explain it. Your covering letter is also very important. Thankfully I don't have to advertise most of the roles I work on as I despair at the quality of applications through the job boards. No covering note/a covering note which was clearly written for a different role/no attempt to highlight why a good candidate/what skills and experience are relevant etc etc. I've posted ads where I've stated that applications without covering letters won't be accepted and have regularly had 70%+ presented without them. I'll put my name in the ad, one I did recently I'd had 60+ applications before I had one addressed to me by name. Some said dear Sir despite my clearly female name. And so on.

So I end up with an inbox full of applications to review. I'll tackle those who make it easy for me to see the relevance first. Then the others. I try to make sure I respond to them all but it's slow. Then I'll get an inevitable sniffy comment from someone about how I've been rude to not respond sooner. And I want to shout (but don't!) "you didn't follow up, but you expect me to do so immediately when you've evidently spent no time in your application but expect me to spend time evaluating it etc". I often have over 600 cvs awaiting review but average maybe 4 calls a week enquiring whether a cv has been received. I think job hunting at the moment is bloody horrible but I do think that online applications encourage passivity in job hunters. Weeding out who's tyre kicking and who's serious is as much of a problem now as when I started 8+ years ago. I know this is a long rant fuelled post and it's not directed at the op; I've written it as I think a little insight into what's happening at the other end could just help someone stand out from the crowd and get a new job. I wish all currently looking every success!

climbs off soapbox and puts kettle on

I think it is more likely the gap itself which is causing you bother. The advice above is excellent. Saying that I too was asked about my childcare arrangements but got the job regardless. They actually seemed happy that it reflected a greater degree of organisational ability and forward planning within me than a negative. My job has a high degree of out of hours short notice and I think anyone would be quizzed. I had to mention it on my application as any time out has to be specified otherwise you are actually stating you have more experience than you do (and months matter).

I would send your cv to the kind mnetter above who offered to look at it - family/friends will always be biased - brutal advice is what you need!

If your partner isSE it gies much more flexibility to cover ill kids etc he is is own boss and does not have to answer to anyone.

I read in the Guardian that a mum returning to work set up an agency to match professional women looking for part time work with small companies who didnt have the means to employ someone full time. Can't remember what it was called but it might be worth getting your google on. GOOD LUCK

redexpat I think this is what you mean?

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jun/25/life-after-children-part-time-work

I deal with recruitment of staff in a non retail sector, but I think some of my experiences may help you. Firstly you should not mention anything at all about marital status or children in your application. In my sector we get two types of application, firstly applicants who mention their children although there is actually no place on the form to put the application. I do wonder why they do this as it is irrelevant and seems nprofesional to me. The second type quite clearly have children but do not mention them - you can tell by gaps in career history which are not fully explained and a pattern of part time working after that. We really respect these applicants as it is clear they are profesional in attitude and really want the job. When I interview I do specify that our working hours ( which are not very child friendly ) are compulsory and a 7am start is not negotiable, if they say that is OK weith them that is it, nothing beyond that is any of my business.

When we advertise we want someone now, who can start quickly and who we can trust to be up to speed. A career gap makes you less attractive because there will possibly be someone who is doing a very similar ob who applies, and they will have the edge. If it is retail you work in could you get some current experience via your loval volunteer bureau in a charity shop?

Lastly, when I get lots of applicants there is no leeway on the procedural side of things. If there are any spelling mistakes, or the work history is not complete or if they have not answered the "general details" question properly they do not get an interview. You might just get an interview against the odds if your application is the most beautifully presented one they get.

I agree with the others, that it's the gap in your CV that's the real problem. I am certain that if my husband were to apply for his job with a five year gap in his CV, he wouldn't get a look in.

There is a lot of internal promotion going on in retail. It's seen as a selling point of the job that no matter where you start, the opportunities for promotion are pretty good. You might find that you'll have to start at the bottom, and look at working your way back up.

I also think that retail is very inflexible when it comes to child friendly working. I know people who have to book holiday dates 18 months in advance, employers know that there are probably five more people waiting in the wings for every person who can't do the hours, or needs some flexibility.

A lot of people are struggling for work, not just mums. People are just using that as an excuse.
You don't even need to mention the fact you're a parent!

Also, whilst it would be nice to get a letter/email just to acknowledge even the fact you weren't successful, it would take time. Time companies very often haven't got.

We (i say we, i mean one of the places i work) are a small business but got hundreds upon hundreds of applicants. We seriously couldn't have emailed them all.

Presumably you don't make mention of your marital status or children on your CV? And you gap in employment ought adequately be explained by your freelancing so it must be something else.

Have you asked anyone to take a look at your cv - I would start canvassing opinions.

I disagree that you should never mention children: if you are of a certain age and have excellent childcare and can confidently say your family is complete them setting this out in interview is IMO helpful. Otherwise your position will likely be assumed to be more negative than in reality it is.

check and double check:

1. Spellings are correct throughout the CV
2. Layout of cv is clear etc

Sometimes, employers will take a look, and cast aside the cv at the first spelling error, and move on to the next cv in the pile.

sounds like you have LOADS of experience imo, and depending on how you spin it, according to the remit of the job being applied for, you should have no probs whatsoever

good luck x

and needless to say, remove piercings, wear appropriate attire etc etc etc

sorry obvious, but employers are shallow fickle creatures at times

But if you dont mention that you're a parent in your cv, you go for an interview and get the job, how are you supposed to cope when you get a call from the school saying your child is unwell, can you come and get them? Or when you child has an illness and needs time off school?

You aren't being discriminated against because you're a mum. You have been out of the workplace for 5 years. It doesn't mean you are unemployable- just that all other things being equal, you're at a disadvantage compared to people who haven't had gaps in their career. That's the bottom line .

To those insisting honesty is the best policy with regard to parenthood, why put ideas into the potential employers ahead that there could be problems? Don't lie if asked, but why volunteer the information? This is about you and your ability to do a job, not your marital status or how many children you have.

But what if the employer never asks if you have children and a few weeks in you have to be called out from work for an emergency for your child?

I still wouldn't mention the children at the cv/application form stage. Maybe later when you've actually been offered the job, if it's relevant (and it isn't always, sometimes the other parent, or a nanny or grandparent or someone would be 'on call' in case a child is ill or something).

You make sure you have shown yourself to be a hard working, reliable and flexible member of the team and that the missed time will either be taken as holiday or made up later, whichever your boss prefers.

Not your problem if they haven't asked the right questions at interview and highly unlikely that lots of other people aren't in the same position.

You don't have to apologise to your boss for being a mother.

Or during the induction programme ask what the policy is on time off at short notice.

People without children might have to take time off at short notice to care for an ill parent, or spouse. Or get sick themselves. Don't see how it's relevant.
There is an issue to do with discrimination, because although both men and women would find it harder to get back into work with a 5 year gap, which sex is more likely to have that gap? Women, as we still tend to do most of the childcare.
Fwiw I remember hearing of employers who used arbitrary reasons to whittle down the applicants, such as envelope colour or star signs.

I certainly wouldn't dream of selecting applicants on the basis of envelope colour or star signs! Recruitment is a very costly process, and most employers are extremely keen to choose the best person for the job. If I am involved in making an appointment to my team, I want the person with the best skills and experience, someone who will fit in swiftly and be effective. All else being equal, if one candidate has up to date experience then that's a proven track record, which someone who hasn't worked for 5 years won't necessarily have. However sometimes someone exceptional comes along who may not have worked for a while and if theyre the best person they would get the job.

It's not about being a mum, it's about keeping skills up to date.

I don't think I've ever been discriminated against for having children. One job interview I went to I was a SAHM with 3 under 5s and they told me to take them along. They sat and coloured while I was interviewed (and I got the job ). That time I had been out of work for 4 and a bit years.

I think it's just the recession and lots of people chasing the same few jobs.